Pornography is what this site is all about
Dr. Gutsy Do Right Dog
and want to find out about animals.
It is called the UNDERGROUND RAILROAD a method where sex is the topic,
however a cover up is used to disguise the intent. As it is a way to
get in touch with people who are into neckrophylia, sexual preferences
and what shin color the person wishes to engage in etc.. For instance
when a person say's that they went to see a Nurse, it means that they
are looking to play sex games with playing nurse-doctor-baby etc.
sexual games.
I think this is dishonest as people who want to know about dogs like I
did end up on a pornographic site and are totally confused at the
content when all I want to do is train my dog. The other thing this
site does is let people know where they can get equipment such is face
masks with zippers over the mouth and eyes for their sexual pursuits,
while at the same time soliciting people who are into the same games
and this site gives e-mails so they can get a hold of each other. This
is how child molesters can also find children who are looking to train
their puppy. It a criminal way of using the net. It is done so
inconspicuously that I did not even notice until I studied it for long
enough and spoke with Jerry for hours who is good at throwing a person
off and while at the same time he is seeing if you want to participate
or if you are looking for dog advice. He is getting paid to do this by
the sex industry and it is illegal to do this as it is faking that it
is about dogs. This is how children are being found by child killers
and rapists. This group belongs in ADULT ONLY CONTENT and that is why
it is illegal. This way of being on the internet and not going to sites
that cater to sexual content is how people are put in harms way while
looking for dog information. It is cleverly set up that even though I
am aware of how this type of under ground illegal activity works it
even threw me off. The only reason Jerry Howe is not in jail for this
is due to undercover way he does it. Due to the fact that sex and
pornography and equipment for sexual use is not mentioned, he gets away
with it.
THIS BELONGS ON ADULTS ONLY, as it is only legal to have sex between
consenting adults.
I hope they bust him and other sites like this that are abusing the net
for illegal activity. Due to the stupid way the legal system is set up
because they are all supposedly chatting about dogs with The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's hundreds of sites he gets away with it and the sex
industry that promotes it in illegal sex activity that he is involved
with. Like the so called Dr. Vaughn, and a whole net work of people who
set up these kind of sites. This is not the only one it is all over the
net. BE AWARE OF THIS.
Jerry will most likely post a crazy sounding response to this post as
it exposes how the sex trade works, and many people might dismiss him
as having problems mentally. He is not, he is devious. And is master
con man. And I thought I had seen it all but his one duped me for a
week. So how can people who are not aware of this sex trade illegal
activity due to it misrepresent a site. FULL DISCLOSURE. Go to ADULTS
ONLY. Come clean about the real intent about this site. It is
despicable how this is hard to stop legally as they are supposedly
talking about dogs.
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
Dr. Gutsy Do Right Dog wrote:
>
> This site is not about dogs or animals
INDEED. We haven't been talkin about dogs for
a couple years now here on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Forums. This is The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's HUMAN BEHAVIOR RESEARCH
and ANIMAL BEHAVIOR SCIENCE FORENSIC RESEARCH
LABORATORIES.
> for those people who come here and want
> to find out about animals.
When DECENT CARING LOVING people come here
they are quickly turned away in DISGUST if
they've got any CONSCIENCE MORALS ETHICS or
PRINCIPLES.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's professional
associates and personal friends have told
HIM to FORGET about it, "they mean less
than SPIT", "some sewers CANNOT be cleaned",
"why WASTE your time", "you'll NEVER change
them", "they're SICK and DISGUSTING, don't
lower yourself to their level", "you're
ONLY HURTING YOURSELF associating with
those PIGS", to quote just a few of HIS
peer's comments regarding the r.p.d. forums.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's personal and
professional friends and associates have
told HIM they cannot come here to support
HIS cause, they believe NOTHIN can be done
to improve the life condition of degenerates.
> It is called the UNDERGROUND RAILROAD
INDEED. There's many issues which do not
meet the eye even at second glance. You'd
have to be trained and experienced in several
psychiatric philosophies to even begin to
uncover the layers of DIS-EASES propagated
by these virulent mental cases.
> a method where sex is the topic,
INDEED, that'd be the Freudian take on it,
and no doubt, Freud would have a field day
here!
> however a cover up is used to disguise the intent.
Of curse. NOTHING is as it appears at first glance.
> As it is a way to get in touch with people
> who are into neckrophylia, sexual preferences
> and what shin color the person wishes to engage
> in etc..
You mean, "NETWORKING", as EXXXAMPLED through
Master Of Deception blankman's "dogplay.com"
website. Take a look at the links she offers,
if you got the stomach for it. Certainly some
of the links are not active participants in her
vicious SCAM, some are not even aware she's
linked to them. Perhaps that's part of the
smoke screen.
> For instance when a person say's that they
> went to see a Nurse, it means that they are
> looking to play sex games with playing nurse-
> doctor-baby etc. sexual games.
There's many similes that can be used.
> I think this is dishonest as people who want
> to know about dogs like I did end up on a
> pornographic site and are totally confused at
> the content when all I want to do is train my
> dog.
Right. HOWER dog lovers are living their lies
through their dogs. What they're really talkin
about are their Nazi philosophies and agendas.
> The other thing this site does is let people
> know where they can get equipment such is face
> masks with zippers over the mouth and eyes for
> their sexual pursuits,
Right. They're into bondage and discipline and
Sado Masochism and necrophelia and urin / anal /
scat fettishsims, as you stated.
> while at the same time soliciting people
> who are into the same games
INDEED. For those reasons "NORMAL" or DECENT
PEOPLE DO NOT POST HERE, as The Amazing Puppy
Wizard has been sayin for a couple years now.
> and this site gives e-mails so they can get ahold
> of each other. This is how child molesters can also
> find children who are looking to train their puppy.
INDEED. It's a psycho sexual pandemic.
> It a criminal way of using the net.
INDEED, at least inso far as those participants
who are AWARE of what's REALLY goin on here. The
others are simply sick victims of their fettishes.
> It is done so inconspicuously that I did not
> even notice until I studied it for long enough
> and spoke with Jerry for hours
INDEED. We've spent nearly thirty HOWERS on
the phone discussing the intricacies of "dog
behavior."
> who is good at throwing a person off
Ahhh, let's call that ENLIGHTENING.
> and while at the same time he is seeing if you
> want to participate or if you are looking for
> dog advice.
Correct. The Amazing Puppy Wizard is not
naiev or trusting of anyWON who approaches
HIM with QUESTIONS. Most folks do not care
to pursue these disgusting topics. Most
professionals are unable to get through
the veil. Questioners are always viewed
with suspicion due to the underground or
subconsciHOWES nature of these DIS-EASES.
> He is getting paid to do this
No. The Amazing Puppy Wizard does this FOR
FREE to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT the
perpetuators.
> by the sex industry
You mean the dog food and pharmacutical companies.
> and it is illegal to do this as it is
> faking that it is about dogs.
Naaah, the dog food and pharmacutical companies
legally contribute to veterinary universities
through scholarships and research grants, even
the Federal Government participates in these
colossal SCAMS.
> This is how children are being found by child
> killers and rapists. This group belongs in ADULT
> ONLY CONTENT and that is why it is illegal.
Well, it'll be illegal soon as The Amazing
Puppy Wizard drops the hammer on the industry.
> This way of being on the internet and not
> going to sites that cater to sexual content
> is how people are put in harms way while
> looking for dog information.
That's correct. That's HOWE COME DECENT PEOPLE
DO NOT POST HERE, Dr. Gutsy Do Right.
> It is cleverly set up that even though I
> am aware of how this type of under ground
> illegal activity works it even threw me off.
Right. We've been VICTIMIZED by the professor
dermer's and dr. plonsky's and dr. dodman's
and dr. dunbar's and dra. mcconnell's and
dra. marters of the universities and captain
haggerty's and sgt. grant teebon's of the
military K-9 agencies.
> The only reason Jerry Howe is not in jail
> for this is due to undercover way he does it.
Well, you can bet the authorites who PARTICIPATE
in these scams would LOVE to put the cuffs on HIM
so HE can't IDENTIFY and EXXXPOSE their duplicity.
> Due to the fact that sex and pornography and
> equipment for sexual use is not mentioned, he
> gets away with it.
Right. These are very cleverly disgused as DOG
TRAINING and BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION TOOLS and
TECHNIQUES.
> THIS BELONGS ON ADULTS ONLY,
NO. This kinda stuff is NOT for adults, it's
for NAZIS and SADISTS. DECENT PEOPLE DO NOT
POST HERE.
> as it is only legal to have sex between consenting adults.
INDEED. We're RAPING unsuspecting people and
teaching these techniques to our children in
pubic education and HOWER university systems.
> I hope they bust him and other sites like
> this that are abusing the net for illegal
> activity.
INDEED. The Amazing Puppy Wizard intends to
put these cretins into the limelight and
HOWETA THIS BUSINESS.
> Due to the stupid way the legal system is set up
They'll NEVER believe it. IN FACT, they're
unwilling DUPES of these Masters Of Deception.
> because they are all supposedly chatting about dogs
Like the breed specific anti Pit Bull legislation.
> with The Amazing Puppy Wizard's hundreds of sites
> he gets away with it and the sex industry that
> promotes it in illegal sex activity that he is
> involved with.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's involvement is to
IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT the abusers
like dr. mark plonsky and professor scruff
shake dermer of UofWI and dr. nicholas dodman
and dra. amy marter of Tuffts and dra. cathryn
houpt of Cornell and dra. patricia mcconnell
of Purdue and dra. karen overall of UofPA and
dr. ian dunbar and their ilk.
> Like the so called Dr. Vaughn,
Dr. Von is The Amazing Puppy Wizard's reluctant
accomplice, as are other yet unnamed veterinary
experts who likeWIZE have seen through the veils.
> and a whole net work of people who set up
> these kind of sites.
Unfortunately, The Amazing Puppy Wizard is
alone in HIS quest to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and
DISCREDIT these abusers. The professionals
who agree and support HIS fine works are
likeWIZE afraid of recieving the notoriety
which does not SCARE The Amazing Puppy Wizard.
> This is not the only one it is all over the
> net. BE AWARE OF THIS.
INDEED. THAT'S WHAT The Amazing Puppy Wizard
has been TRYING to TELL YOU.
> Jerry will most likely post a crazy sounding
> response to this post
At first glance your post WOULD sound CRAZY.
HOWEver, IT IS NOT.
> as it exposes how the sex trade works,
INDEED.
> and many people might dismiss
> him as having problems mentally.
THAT'S their ONLY SELF DEFENSE.
> He is not, he is devious.
INDEED. This has been a DIVIN PLAN
to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and DISCREDIT
these ABUSERS.
> And is master con man.
INDEED. OtheWIZE HE COULD NOT TRAIN ALL
DOGS and CHILDREN NEARLY INSTANTLY witHOWET
HURTIN and INTIMIDATIN them <{); ~ ) >
> And I thought I had seen it all
YOU AIN'T SEEN NUTHIN YET.
> but his one duped me for a week.
You meant "this" WON has duped you.
> So how can people who are not aware
> of this sex trade illegal activity
> due to it misrepresent a site.
THAT'S HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard has IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and
DISCREDITED the so called EXXXPERTS.
> FULL DISCLOSURE.
INDEED.
> Go to ADULTS ONLY.
We're not dealing with ADULT MINDS,
we're dealing with so called adults
who've been REPRESSED by their abusive
doting parents and WANT to perpetuate
their DIS-EASE on their children HOWET
OF RESPECT for their ABUSERS.
IT'S THE STOCKHOLM SYNDROME.
IT'S MUCHOUSEN BY PROXY.
IT'S ANOREXIA NERVOUSA BY PROXY.
IT'S SADISTIC MASOCHISTIC SEXUAL DYSFUNCTION.
IT'S TAUGHT BY HOWER PARENTS and DOG LOVERS.
> Come clean about the real intent about this site.
You've done a remarkable job seeing thru the veils.
> It is despicable
INDEED.
> how this is hard to stop legally as
> they are supposedly talking about dogs.
Dogs are only the VEHICLE.
THANK YOU, Dr. Gutsy Do Right Dog.
Subject: Sexual Sado Masochism "BUZZ" And Dog Training
HOWEDY People,
If you're gonna call people liars dog abusers
cowards and active long term incurable mental
cases, you damned well better be able to PROVE
IT.
Like this:
Sexual Sado Masochism "BUZZ" And Dog Training
Date: 2004-04-13 11:43:10 PST
HOWEDY People,
If all dog behavior problems are CAUSED BY
MISHANDLING and ABUSE, what role does
sexual sado masochism play in MURDERING
HOWER BEST DOGS, like laura arlov done
to her own DEAD DOG Chewie?:
From: polara (lar...@muchomail.com)
Subject: Re: A young behind or an older behind?
Newsgroups: soc.sexuality.spanking
Date: 2004-03-14 05:35:29 PST
"Steven" asked:
> What is more of a turn-on for a story: The spanking
> of an adult or the spanking of a child by an adult?
For me: the spanking of an adult.
If I had to give a reason, it could be because it requires
less of a leap to imagine myself into the story in either
role.
("The Temp" is one of my favorite stories at the Janitorium,
and I especially enjoy your "10 years" retrospective.)
polara
From: polara (lar...@muchomail.com)
Subject: Re: spanking films
Newsgroups: soc.sexuality.spanking
Date: 2004-03-23 13:40:43 PST
"Laura M." <lm01...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb6c0e2f.04032...@posting.google.com...
> Can anybody recommend some good spanking
> films which do not feature blood or torture or
> anything like that? My husband and I share a
> spanking fetish and for me I'm not getting the
> buzz that i used to.
> A good film might be useful for us?
> I am pleased to find this discussion group- i had
> no idea this existed or i would visit much sooner!.
> I will eventualy contribute some short erotic stories
> (about ten) that i have written but they are all very
> lame but at least they offer a female perspective on
> things.
You mean "THINGS," like physical / emotional / sexual ABUSE.
You're a MENTAL CASE, laura.
> thanks,
You're welcome.
> Laura.
Hi, Looking forward to your stories.
I'm married to a great guy who is willing to spank but not
into it...so my needs and interests may be different from
yours as a couple.
But for what it's worth here's my take:
I personally find that many of Shadow Lane's
films get me squirming pretty quickly. I like
dialog between the participants, especially in
the newer films where it is usually delivered
in a fairly believable manner.
I also feel that Shadow Lane offers a variety
of scenarios from punishment to mutual pleasure,
and I appreciate that.
The players' tone of voice and their dialog give
me a basis for an emotional element as I fantasize
myself into the scene.
It works for me because my enjoyment of my spanking
kink is about 50/50 in my head and in the physical
sensations.
YMMV
Polara
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
ROTATE YOUR MEDS!
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
================
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
>>lynn kosmakos (Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
>> depression) will "put down a biter
>> as fast as anyone" yet claims to
>> be a saintly dog rescuer
SEE? TOLD YA SO!
Here's lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's PARTNER:
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING is COURTEHOWES?
"I have heard advice stating that you should pre-load
your dog for Bitter Apple for it to work as efficiently
as possible. What does this mean?"
Means the author is a dog abuser of the worst magnitude.
"When you bring home the Bitter Apple for
the first time, spray one squirt directly into
the dog's mouth and walk away. The dog
won't be too thrilled with this but just ignore
him and continue your normal behavior."
--Mike Dufort
author of the zero selling book
"Courteous Canines"
You think HURTING your dog is NORMAL BEHAVIOR?
You think HOWER pal mikey is playin with a full deck?
> I think you'll find that most are quite
> willing to discuss not only their programs,
YOU HURT and KILL DOGS, lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
> but others in your area that would be suitable for you.
Know what? The OP would do better askin a MENTAL
CASE off the street than relyin on you and your
MENTALLY ILL LYIN DOG ABUSIN PUNK THUG COWARDS:
> Lynn K.
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
--------------------------------------
"You Lying Sack Of Dung.When Have I Ever Said
Anything About Using A Prong Collar, Or Any Collar
Correction At All, To Make Dogs Friendly To House
Cats? Don't bother. The answer is never," lying "I
LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn writes about kats and dogs:
'This Article Is Something We've Put Together
For SF GSD Rescue'
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: I have a dog he has cats
Date: 1999/11/20
ginge...@my-deja.com wrote:
> How can I get him to quit chasing the cats.
Okay - this is going to be a bit loooong - Lynn K.
"Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog. Don't
forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong works
better than a choke with less chance of injury to the dog in
this situation.
Electronics can be used to create an aversion to cats, but
should be used under the direction of a trainer who knows how
to instruct the owner in their proper use. Electronics can
take the form of shock, sonic or citronella collars. At that
time the owner will train with electronics instead of food or
whatever other reward system was being used."
8) Put a prong collar with a six-foot leash on the dog.
Don't forget to put the muzzle on the dog. I think a prong
works better than a choke with less chance of injury to the
dog in this situation. Have the dog in a sit-stay next to
you with most of the slack out of the leash and let the cat
walk through the room and up to the dog if it wishes (this is
why you have the dog muzzled).
If the dog makes an aggressive move towards the
cat, it must be corrected strongly with both your
voice and the collar.
This is important - the correction must be physically
very strong - not a nag. (PS: not many dogs need
to be corrected at all)."
Lynn K. wrote:
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted
condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
Lynn K.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
> > Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
> > quotes are true.
>
> > In the posts below you take responsibility for
> > making those calls.
>
> > In your post above, you state you do not make those calls.
> > Which one is it?
>
> Nope, Bob. Mikey isn't a stupid man and he
> knows well the difference between:
> 1. A non-shelter rescue group that occasionally
> has to put a dog down for health or temperament
> reasons. (Yep, I'm involved with that.)
>
> 2. A trainer hired to evaluate a dog who might
> determine the dog is potentially dangerous.
> (Yes, again, I've been in that position.)
>
> 3. Public pounds that routinely kill stray and
> abandoned animals. (Nope, I only pull animals
> from those pounds into the private rescue programs.)
-----------------------------------
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
> (replies to the list please)
INDEEDY. On accHOWENT of The Puppy Wizard
don't want noWON to miss the FREAK PARADE:
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: I am
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/02
a major bitch today
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: got a question - how long before I'm an EX-cutter?
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/11/30
> I mean, I haven't cut since June.
> But am I a cutter or an ex-cutter now?
> And how long before I am an ex-cutter?
> anyone got any answers?
> I still get sort-of cutting urges, but I haven't had
> 'em very strongly.Just sort of vague thoughts in
> my head. But I think that's going to happen forever.
> Kind of like alcoholics who recover.
> I know that the urge will come back at
> times of stress, but I don't have to do it.
> so, when am I an ex-cutter?
Its been about 9 months since I last cut.
I consider myself a recovering self injurer.
I still get the urge at times.
And like an alcoholic, i could easily slide.
So, Im proud of me for being in recovery from cutting....
And I'm proud of you Laz for being in recovery
and Im proud of everyone else resisting the temptation.
Love, hope and caring to yall all
-Sunny
---------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: is it self injury if:
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/03
>you pick at scabs and watch them bleed...
>you pick at hangnails and make them bleed...
>you pick at calluses on your feet until they bleed....
>you poke blisters making them bleed....
I dont know.
I wonder myself.
I do the same thing.
Im a self injurer and an obsessive compulsive.
I always thought it was picking from my OCD.
-Sunny
----------------
From: Sunni12 (sunn...@aol.com)
Subject: Re: I wish I was........
Newsgroups: alt.support.depression
Date: 1998/12/05
> sunn...@aol.com (Sunni12) wrote:
>> important
>> needed
>> cared about
>> loved
>> wanted
>> -Sunny
>You are all those things, Sunny...& more.
>But I'll give you a few more cyberhugs, anyway...
>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{SUNNY}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
>Mary
Thanks. That was a really bad day
when I wrote it. Much better now.
Thanks
Sunny
who should do something about her PMS
RPD* MeNTally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03
NEW!!
LYNN K. 20 plus years on Lithium
LOIS E. 25 plus years on tricyclics
Hello Fans,
here is our latest NEW AND IMPROVED crazy person
update, including our latest mentally unstable person,
Lois E. of Gary and Lois fame who has been on Tricyclics
pushing 25 years. She is no longer afraid to talk about it.
Neither is Lynn K. who embraces her mental illness and
opens up about her 20 plus years on Lithium, as well as
her love afair with Zoloft.
MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!
RPD* Ment_ally Ill All_StaRz as of 12/21/03
I TOO HAVE A BIPOLAR MOOD DISORDER
(MANIC DEPRESSION) I ALSO CARE ABOUT
DOGS COMMUNITY IS AN EVOLUTIONARY THING
WORDS OF WISDOM from our own
Lynn Kosmakos
=======================================
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: complaints and goodbye
Lisa K. Baird (lba...@infinet.com) wrote:
:
: Sheesh, if everyone would start taking responsibility
: for their own actions, wouldn't life be grand?
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully
outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIM
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and LOIS E, and a BiLateral, BiPolar
conversation on Mental problems. LYNN AND LOIS
Almost 50 years on mental illness medications combined
-----------------------------------------
> But I think what Lois was referring to
> was the fact that Darlene actually
> stated at some point that she was
> bipolar--and, IIRC, that meds did not work
> for her--so she was prone to major-league
> ups and downs and sudden
> enthusiasms..
"It wasn't that meds didn't work for her
- she wouldn't take them. I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
-----------------------------------------
LYNN K. and the UNQUIET MIND
----------------------------------------
From: Lynn Kosmakos (lkosma...@home.com)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/03
BoxHill wrote:
> I know I am totally off topic here, but have you read
> "The Unquiet Mind"?
Yeah. It's interesting, but kind of
watered down for the mass market, if
you know what I mean. There's really
quite a lot of good work out there and
decent research. Thank God.
Lynn K.
---------------------------------------
MOTHER AND CHILD REUNION "KUCKOO!! CUCKOO!!!"
MOTHER (LOIS E.) 22 YEARS on TRICYCLICS, DAUGHTER BIPOLAR...
YOU DO THE MATH
"What's really terrific, is now days you can say proudly,
'I take anti-depressives'"
-------------------------------------
From: Gary & lois Edwards (g...@bmi.net)
Subject: Re: Where is Darlene?
Date: 1999/09/02
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted."
The good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
-------------------------------------
MENTAL ILLNESS IN RPD*
Mental illness is a public issue in these newsgroups.
People are always running around calling other people
mentally ill and diagnosing their illnesses.
I think it's only fair that we have an accurate list of who
is and who isn't mentally ill, so that we can avoid any
misunderstandings and promote group harmony.
Updated KUCKOO!! KUCKOOO! DING! DING! DING!
list as of 12/21/2003:
list of confirmed or suspected mentally ill (crazy)
Regulars Most of whom are women or homosexuals
RPD CRAZY PERSON ROLL CALL and BIOS
=============================================
NESSA
NUTCASE
MVP (Most Valuable Psycho) of dog newsgroups
Successfully dethroned MaryBeth as MVP
Nessa blames all the problems in her life
moston ADD ADHD Or some other empowering acronym
which encapsulates her futility for her
Her dog bagel, a large newf mix
has used her house liberally
as a toilet since February of 2002. Drives
a 2003 Toyota Matrix, owns a house in
suburban MD, recently got a raise/promotion
to US goverment grade 11 (circa $50,000) and
promptly decided she couldn't afford her two
dogs. With help from non crazy regular
(Paulette) and witchcraft practicing regular
Sara Sionnach, Nessa has decided to keep her
dogs for the time being. She is undergoing
training from Janet "Nice Abdominal Surgery
and getting Run Over for the Family Pet."
Her results have not been dramatic.
CrAzy ReGulAr helping CraZy ReGular
Leah helping Nessa
=============================
On Fri, 7 Jun 2002 8:40:08 -0400, Leah wrote
Nessa use...@nessa.info wrote:
"As far as the depression goes, it's not
related to Bagel at all. I have
chronic major depression and I'm just having
a flare."
Leah asks
"Are you on any medication?"
Nessa responds
yes for depression, mood swings and ADHD.
I have been for over 10 years.
--nessa
Nessa is Fat as well as crazy
"For what it's worth...
I picked up 30 pounds when I started
Dilantin. I picked up (just recently) another
20 on risperidol.
I hate that I was a size 8-10 before meds and
now I am solidly (pun intended) a 22-24.
Sad part is, the side effects are worth it.
The positive effects
are too much to part with."
--nessa
NESSA'S HAS A GREAT NEUROPSYCH
Hi, I have a great neuropsych in Arlington Va.
He is at the Rosyln Metro Station. His name is
Martin Stein
1911 N Fort Myer Dr.
Suite 907
Arlington Va 22209
703-807-2471
email 75120.2...@compuserve.com
Marty is wonderful. He is really the best.
He has also given me permission to post his
infomation on this Newsgroup. If you call
him and see him by all means tell him Nessa
sent you.
--nessa
================================
ROTATE YOUR STIMULANTS
=============================
from: Nessa (n...@ix.netcom.com)
Hi,
I often have to rotate my stimulants.
You can become used to them and sometimes
need a different one for a while. Until I
got on my Desoxyn I rotated Ritilan and
Dexedrine every 3 months or so.
It is true that anti-depressants or
anti-anxiety pills will help with the
stimulants so your DR is not wrong. However,
perhaps she needs to check into the idea that
a switch from cylert to something else might
be in order.
warm thoughts,
Nessa
=============================
Lois E.
(of Gary and Lois fame)
Lois' has been on tricyclic antidepressants for
approximately 25 years. This may be a record.
Husband is a cop but there is no evidence
that he beats the crap out of her, or that he
has for 25 years.
Had a traumatic experience as a child with a
horse running wild in the Pantry and living room.
In recent years, shot neighbor's dog from point
blank range while it was chewing on her pigmy goat,
teaching son to solve problems with the neighbor's
using shock and awe levels of violence."
BEEN ON TRICYCLICS FOR ABOUT 22 YEARS
"I don't take lithium, but I've been on trycyclics
for about 22 years. Been there, done that, have
the t-shirt to prove it. What's really terrific,
is now days you can say proudly,
"I take anti-depressives". Back when I started
taking them it was seen as something shameful.
If you cut your leg off, and were lying there with
a bleeding stump, you'd never let the word
depressed, pass your lips, or the doc's would say,
"You're depressed, on medication? Well, can't have
any pain meds.....you could become addicted." The
good old days. I actually had a Great Aunt who's
father locked her in her room back in the twenties
because she was simple. A shame that medication
probably would have helped her live a normal life.
No Denna, I was just saying with Darlene's
personality, she has a way of making grandiose
plans when at the top of her manic cycle....as
does my daughter. I wasn't saying that anyone
with problems could be counted on to be
irresponsible."
Lois E.
=============================================
Kelly/
culprit
Systems engineer at Microsoft, owner of two
pitbulls, proving that Bill Gates does not
discriminate against crazy people or pit bull
owners.
psychotic features, panic and more. Coming
forward so that others like her will have the
strength to do the same. Like Charlie Wilkes,
she is one of our most entertraining regulars
Here, kelly/culprit talks to Mustang Sally
about her mental illness/crazy problems.
Sally is being rude and condescending (as usual)
and trying to make kelly/culprit feel bad for
being crazy, aka wacked in the head
culprit standing up for herself against rude
and condescending Mustang Sally
-----------------------------------------------
I WON'T DENY MY PROBLEMS, MUSTANG SALLY!
"but i stand by the fact that OCD is an
illness, major depression with psychotic features
certainly is, panic disorder is too. and the
other stuff just makes it all the more fun.
i don't wallow in it. i'm just now learning to
accept it, because ignoring it wasn't working out
too well. i need to do that to make changes to my
life so that i can become healthy. and you say
you're not trying to be condescending, but you're
doing it again. what i read was, (my paraphrasing)
"people who think they're mentally ill are
wallowing in their disabilities and letting them
consume their life"
you come across as though you would be able to
handle any of these illnesses, and anyone who
can't is just copping out. well we're all
different. and i don't accept your idea that i
would have a more productive life if i denied my
problems. i tried it for years, and believe me,
it didn't work very well."
-kelly aka culprit
systems engineer @ Microsoft
------------------------------------
MaryBeth
FMVP (former most valuable psycho)
(super psycho bitch
lunatic queen of the
mentally fucked in
the head)
Has contributed greatly to the annual profit
results at several large pharmaceutical corps
has taken virtually every mentally ill (crazy)
drug treatment in the book, and then some:
prozac, zoloft, amitryptiline, Buspar, Xanax,
effexor, paxil, HRT, wellbutrin, tranquilizers,
clomid,
MaryBeth has suffered from or been:
TIDAL WAVES OF PMS
suicidal, agoraphobic, tidal waves of PMS,
mood swings, turned into a hermit, bloated,
just real angry, hubby afraid of her, high
blood pressure, divorced, "raving bitch"
"zoloft zombie" for four years, "living
through layers and layers of gauze," chain
smoker, buzzing, weight gain, fatigue,
terrible dry mouth, dull headaches, fuzzy
brain, lack of concentration..etc.
severe depression, severe insomnia, Panic
ALL the time, crying, not sleeping, you name
it...etc...
MaryBeth (on being seriously f'd in the head
aka mentally ill) aka cuckoo! kuckoo! ding! ding! ding!
aka a superpsychotic bitch from hell
I RAN OVER EVERYONE IN MY PATH
"I know for a fact I went thru years of
being overly sensitive, being a b*tch,
being self centered, being self pitying,
you name it, I was a wreck and I ran over
everyone in my path."
"<G> I do know the power of meds, especially
on a long term basis, and it's not pretty.
You become another person, if it's not the
correct med for you.
--All the best,
MaryBeth
DON'T TAKE ULTRAM AND ZOLOFT TOGETHER
"Yup Diane, I am taking Zoloft, and my
Rheumatologist told me that taking
Ultram with it can cause seizures."
"I have all the symptoms.I am suicidal at
times (cyclical) have severe insomnia,
'crawly' skin etc. I have an appt to see
my doc next Friday to test for menopause."
--MaryBeth
ME NOT SO HORNY
"I noticed that antidepressants cut libido
into the dead zone and I had no real emotions,
like not laughing at funny stuff, couldn't cry
either.....except about my suicidal thoughts
(but at the time I thought there was no other
way out)."
--MaryBeth
NEW TO GROUP
"Hi, new to group, just starting Clomid today.
I talked with RE and pharmacist re: zoloft (50
mg daily) and ineraction with Clomid. They
reported none. Not sure about the prozac tho.
Gonna poat a new message to intorduce
myself :)"
--MaryBeth <still feeling
like herself> <G>
WASTED 10 YEARS
"I wasted about 10 years of my life, and lost
many many treasured ppl and things. Please
don't do the same. (((((((SCOUT))))))))))
--MaryBeth
WAS HORRIBLE
"Slowly but surely my depression got worse and
worse. They put me on meds for it, and all
along kept telling me to wait on the TKR, as
'it really wasn't that bad.....yet". HA!"
The depression got so bad, and lots of other
things happened and my ex and I would up
divorced four years after our move. It was
horrible. The hardest thing I have eve gone
thru"
--MaryBeth
=============================================
=============================================
Theresa Willis
(paxil, depression, robot displacement)
Theresa is a gang banger who comes out
of cutesy robot mode when it's time to
gang attack people with her pal shelly
Victim is usually Leah, but may be a
random person.
=============================================
=============================================
shelly
couvrette
Severe OCD, depression, prescribed Paxil
for mental illness, but claims she does
not take it, resulting in an obsessive
basket case online persona. Posts more than
any other female in all dog newsgroups
(familial mental illness, possibly related
to family bed) obsessively starves her
dogs according to friends, family,
strangers and 3 different vets, but
not herself (see below). Still thinks
of herself as a five year old ballerina
despite the fact that she is a fat
adult in her mid thirties.
PAGE ALL THE WAY DOWN FOR BONUS COVERAGE
=============================================
=============================================
lynn
kosmakos
RPD* Enemy of Dogs #1
(Lithium, Zoloft, bipolar, manic,
depression) will "put down a biter
as fast as anyone" yet claims to
be a saintly dog rescuer. Murders
dogs because of insurance rates
Her brother was attacked by a Golden
Retriever when she was young. For
this reason, she murders easily
trainable dogs. Condemns dogs to
death who are easily trainable
with her "evaluations."
Is nice to people in person, but
her true dog hating nature comes
out on newsgroups with
extreme clarity.
Advocates shooting dogs on sight, when
they chase deer. Sees no other
option. Her own dog Java had to be shocked
with a shock collar to keep him from
chasing deer.
has been on lithium for approximately
20 years. Zoloft for an undetermined
number of years
1200mg LITHIUM
50mg ZOLOFT
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder
(manic-depression) requiring 1200mg of lithium
and 50 mg of Zoloft every day. I, also, care
about dogs and use this forum to learn more,
while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post
such sh*t, I would hope that every other
reader of this group would be rightfully outraged."
WE EARN THE RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I particularly remember
a comment she made about scarey side effects of
Lithium. Hardly. After 17 years on it, I think
I'm qualified to say that the very low risk of
any side effect is far less frightening than the
very real dangers of life without it."
Lynn K.
From: Chris Kosmakos (chris...@netcom.com)
Subject: Re: Prozac - Good medication or no?
I TAKE A SIMILAR DRUG MYSELF
"Yes, for very specific behaviorial problems.
I would have to trust my vet and behaviorist
a lot, and be very sure that I had exhausted
every other option before I used Prozac to
deal with a dog problem - and I take a
similar drug, Zoloft, myself."
Lynn K.
=============================================
=============================================
Leah
Effexor for chronic depression, in denial
about being mentally ill. Has taken
several other mentally ill medications
before settling on effexor for her
chronic mental problems. Leah is
improving as a dog trainer and wants
to open her own training/boarding
kennel soon and write a book.
This drives her fellow mentally ill regulars
nuts (read shelly Lynn K.), especially if Leah
succeeds while other loonies continue to sit on
their fat behinds
Leah is a relatively stable crazy person
but she just might be the agent that drives
others to jump off of a cliff
=============================================
=============================================
Tara Green
Tara Green is a dog trainer of sorts in New York
City left rpd* claiming that she could
not afford internet access and/or a computer,
but her story is of value nonetheless
was on antidepressants for a few years
prior to her marriage. During her
marriage, she learned a lot:
"With the therapist I saw during my
marriage I learned that some
situational depressions are masked as
chemical simply because of our too human
ability to prolong the impact of the
causal situations indefinitely"
Sounds like more denial, see leah
Tara is also a drunk who has also had
problems with other substances
TARA on being a drunk/substance abuser:
"Tara (who had some problems with quite a
few substances as well, but who thinks they
are separate issues.....so which camp does
that put me in???)"
"Believe it or not, some people don't have
a problem with drugs even though they are
alcoholics. I'm not one of those people,
but they do exist."
aka, tara has problems with both
=============================================
=============================================
Kevin
Michael
Vail
various mental illness drugs, started with
zoloft, didn't like that, then went to
antidepressant, stopped after sufficent
side effects, now on SSRI and in therapy
Kevin is a homosexual but there is no
evidence that this is the cause of him
being crazy
=============================================
=============================================
Furpaw
(SSRI, cognitive therapy)
otherwise, a fairly boring
and nondescript crazy person
=============================================
=============================================
Chris Jung
(Prozac and Welbutrin,
cognitive therapy)
another very boring nutcase
=============================================
=============================================
Charlie
Wilkes
drugged out, crazy, fucked up all his
life, Christ the shit he's been through
including psych wards and electroshock
treatments but now pulling down major cash
as a business consultant. Triumphing over
adversity, with a damn good life and a
well trained dog (very much unlike Leah)
One of our most lucid regulars, despite
(or maybe because of?) a penchant for phat
philly blunts.
=============================================
=============================================
Karen
DuChateaux
aka Karibear
suffered from clinical depression for years
until some drug or something brought her out
of it. Some of her best friends "are
certifiable" and have various degrees of
psychoses. Familial mental disability.
Refuses to say whether or not she is
currently using drug or cognitive therapy
for mental illness.
=============================================
=============================================
Mike "DumbOxDumb" Dufort
threatened non violent dog expert Jerry Howe
with Mike's fully armed US Army Platoon.
Threatened to bring his platoon to Jerry's
HOWSE. also OCD (obsessed with Jerry's posts)
=============================================
=============================================
Jim "Brain Shivers" Sabatke
Jim is currently on Effexor which he takes
because of his depression/mental problems.
Like many of our mental cases, Jim has had
trouble finding the right med(s) to keep him
from going kuckoo!! kuckoooo!!! or getting
the "brain shivers"
From: Jim Sabatke (jsaba...@execpc.com)
Subject: Re: anyone using Effexor?
alt.support.depression.medication
Date: 2002-11-29 20:25:16 PST
EFFEXOR
"I'm on 375 mg/day and it has worked
wonders for me. The only down side is
that my blood pressure has elevated
somewhat; oh and if I miss a dose by a
couple of hours the "brain shivers" can
be really bad.
Good luck!
Jim
"I switched from Paxil to Effexor about
5 months ago. I tapered off of the Paxil
and tapered onto the Effexor at the same
time."
Jim
"After several years on Effexor IR, my
pdoc tried switching me to XR. I
experienced fairly severe Effexor
withdrawel until I went back to the IR."
Jim
=============================================
=============================================
<YOUR NAME GOES HERE>
(please proudly add your name and the drugs/disorders specific
to you, if you are also mentally ill). If we all come forward,
we can help each other with our problems. Remember, mental illness
is nothing to be ashamed of. It's not your fault if you have a
defective brain which may cause you to act like an extreme
hypocrite
and/or idiot and/or robot without your being aware of it).
Also, please notify us if you are *not* mentally ill, and have
been added to this by mistake, so we can make our corrections
and remove you from the crazy person list.
===========================================
mental health weekly
--
This has been a production of
dogtv.com networks
your world leader in dog entertraining
this is michael
reporting live...
from dogtv.com networks
http://dogtv.com
A SPECIAL BONUS ON shelly the librarian at Indiana U.
========================================================
SHELLY IS THE ONLY ONE WHO DOESN'T THINK HATTIE IS STARVING
EMACIATED, VET WAS SURPRISED
"when i got harriet she was emaciated, so
i asked my vet for advice on slowly adding
weight to her. six months later i took
harriet in for her spring check-up and my
vet was surprised that at how thin she still
was."
--shelly couvrette
STILL VET SHOPPING
"<raises hand> i've been told by three
different vets that harriet (53lbs) is
*way* too skinny. we're still vet-shopping,
BTW."
--shelly couvrette
THE OL' "I'M STARVING" ROUTINE
"if you really can't resist it when your dog pulls
the "i'm starving!" routine <G>, you can give
him some frozen green beans or a small amount
of plain pureed pumpkin. i would also suggest
putting the food out of his sight. i keep my
food--still inside the bags, which are tightly
rolled down--inside trash cans in the closed
laundry room. that keeps it fresh and keeps
it out of my dogs' sight."
--shelly couvrette
POSITIVELY STARVED
"heh. i get the opposite response. people think
that poor little harriet is positively starved
to death. i've actually had people stop me in
the pet supply shop and tell me that i need to
fatten her up!"
--shelly couvrette
WHO WANTS TO BE TOLD YOU ARE HURTING YOUR
WIDDLE PRECIOUS?
"i think that may be part of the problem. who
wants to go to a vet who tells you you're
hurting your .widdle precious? i think the
other part is that some vets really don't
*realize* that what they consider proper weight
is fat. after having been told by a couple of
vets that my dogs are too thin, i've got a dim
view of vets on that topic."
--shelly couvrette
JUST A BITE WON'T HURT
--shelly's mom
FEED HER AND I'LL RIP YOUR
ARM OFF, BITCH
--shelly
"my mom is kinda that way, but not *as* bad.
she thinks that harriet is awfully skinny,
so feeding her table snax is okay. she
tells me that just a bite won't hurt."
--shelly couvrette
NOBODY IS STARVING FAT PI.G SHELLY
NOBODY WILL STOP SHELLY ON THE STREET
AND TELL HER SHE IS STARVING HERSELF
shelly's fat face
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette/Wshelly2.jpg
=======================================================
There are a lot of big fat women on these groups who starve
their dogs out of vanity, but shelly is a special case.
shelly is moore than a little bit beyond the pale
Shelly has OCD, and maybe she's just a little obsessive about
measuring out extra tiny and discrete portions with a tiny
measuring cup, or counting out pieces of green bean or pumpkin
that she gives her dogs when they give her the "I'm Starving"
routine. When grandma tried to give Hattie a snack, shelly
probably went apeshit, because it was in violation of her
Obsessive need to oversee every tiny calorie that goes into
her widdle precious' mouth.
shelly's a special case, a special kind of dog abuser
---------------------
this marks the end of the rec.pets.dogs.* crazy person list
copyright 2003
dogtv.com networks
you are free to reproduce this list
This IS NOT the LATEST UPDATED R.P.D.B. CRAZY PERSONS LIST.
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
<YourLastInnocentHon...@HushMail.Com>
Sado Sexual Dog Training By susan fraser -
"Reasons To Earpinch"
HOWEDY People,
Thanks to over twenty years experience shocking
choking pinching twisting and beatinng dogs, susan
fraser will offer her EXXXUSES for HURTIN dogs
when she runs HOWETA ideas and information an
can't HOWEtwit the cunning of the domestic puppy
dog, not even if ITS been SELECTIVELY BRED for
THOWESANDS of generations of CHUMPions.
> Reasons To Earpinch
> (This article is the intellectual property of Susan Fraser.
> Contact me for permission to repost or reprint in any form.)
Yeah. This article is being examined for educational
puporses for discussion only on The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Forum where only lying dog abusing punk thug cowards
and mental cases hurt dogs and lie abHOWET it:
> I come from a field background, where force
> fetching with the ear pinch is the accepted
> standard Indeed it is simply the *first* step of
> the "basics" program for retrievers.
INDEED?
The Amazing Puppy Wizard comes from a
backgrHOWEND of over forty years experience
specializing in temperament and behavior
problems in mostly giant breed working dogs
who'd freakin murder you for pullin that kinda
crap on them.
> Yet, I have done an inducive retrieve (with treats)
You mean your bribery failed to control
a dog goin after a birdie? What would
you EXXXPECT? Your weenie can't
entice a dog off a birdy noMOORE than
it can entice them HOWETA a garbage
can or not to be afraid of kids and skate
boards.
> with my last four young pups _
You shouldn't be allHOWED to own living critters.
> before they got to the age to force fetch.
Well then, you'd have been able to train
them to fetch in the litter box, eh susan?
> By that stage of training, they already knew fetch and hold.
INDEED?
> So I have delved into reasons for the ear pinch
> and discovered that it's purpose is far more than
> just teaching those behaviors.
You mean, when you ear pinch a dog that
already knows HOWE to do what you've
EXXXPERTLY trained IT to do?
>The "force fetch" actually has very little to do with fetching.
Right. IN FACT, it's all got to do with hurtin
and intimidating a dog to make it work harder
than it would if you bribed or choked it, susan.
You ever tried trainin a dog withHOWET HURTIN IT?
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
> It's more about the force part;
You mean the part where you pinch a ear or
twist a toe to make the dog "REALLY DIG HOWET?"
http://www.oakhillkennel.com/library/force/force2.html
"None of my posts, prior to or subsequent to
Jerry Howe's attacks, encourage anyone to
twist ears, beat dogs, confront, intimidate,
frighten, or any of the crap he constantly
attributes to me," lying frosty dahl.
BWEEEEAHAHAHHAAA!!!
> that is, the dog is not being _asked to comply,
> it is a _command.
Oh. You mean we're back to the "ME" thing again.
> This is
All abHOWET "ME." Your ego. Your pathetic
fragile defective ego inferiority complexes and
weak fearful mind, susan.
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It
A Sharp Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know
Jack Wouldn't HaveDone It If He Thought Solo
Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate Him Because
Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN
SHY" dog to be BEATEN by a strange male trainer
is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR for a DOG LOVER?
> the first of very many behaviors in a field dog's
> repertoire that must be absolutely unequivocally
> obeyed.
What's the problem, susan? The Amazing Puppy
Wizard just asks HIS dogs to bring HIM whatever
and they do it cause they enjoy doin stuff and bein
SPECIAL.
"Get A 30"- 40" Stick.You can have a
helper wield the stick, or do it yourself.
Tougher, less tractable dogs may require
you to progress to striking them more
sharply," lying frosty dahl, ethical breeder,
expert trainer, discoverer of cannibalism
in Labradors.
You think a EXXXPERT trainer got to BEAT
a HUNTIN dog to MAKE IT HUNT?
"Pudge Was So Soft That She Could And
Would Avoid A Simple Swat On The Rump
With A Riding Crop," lying frosty dahl,
discoverer of CANNIBALISM in Labradors.
Perhaps the mom dog didn't want her babies
HURT all their lives like HOWE HOWER dog
lovers PREFER to HURT THEIR DOGS?
"John ran out, grabbed Blackie by the collar, and
gave the dog two or three medium whacks on the
rump with a training stick while holding him partially
off the ground. John then told Blackie to sit, ran back
to the line and cast him back to the dummies."
The Puppy Wizard sez a mom dog eatin her babies
to SAVE THEM from a fate like that, is COMMENDABLE.
> And it is the foundation for so many others
> that the stronger it is, the easier the rest will be.
We're gonna teach folks THAT AIN'T NORMAL...
Took five minutes to train my GSD
to pick up stuff and bring it over and
she was HOWEtside and I was inside.
>In a field situation, a dog who decides he would
> prefer not to fetch _
You mean, a SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED
and TESTED for THOWESANDS of generations
RETRIEVER DOG?
You mental cases choke shock beat
twist and pinch dog's ears and lie
abHOWET it:
terri willis, Psychoclown wrote:
"Nope. That "beating dogs with sticks"
things is something you twisted out of
context, because you are full of bizarro
manure."
> this time might be risking life or limb.
You mean you'd KILL him for not jumpin
into the ice water to get a dead birdie
who's head you was kindly enough to
blow clean off in front of his Mrs. and kids
before he kissed them good mornin an
had breakfast?
> Out in the fields where there are cows, barbed
> wire fences, roads, peoplewith guns, GATORS,
> etc. a dog does not have the privelige of choosing
> when to comply and when not to.
Right. That's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual Students learn HOWE to install
the come or any command as a conditioned reflex
in abHOWET WON HOWER. Maybe less, if you
know HOWE.
> Fetch is mandatory,
Like come?
>and that's one of the main things the pinch teaches.
You mean, cause if the dog don't FETCH he
may get run DHOWEN by a four wheeler or
get ate by a gator or shot by another drunken
hunter or you'll just give up and shoot the thing
yourself and get a new dog an start over?
There ain't nuthin much EZier than trainin
a HUNTIN dog to HUNT, susan. They've
been SELECTIVELY BRED for THOWESANDS
of generations over THOWESANDS of years
to do JUST HUNTIN.
>Also, the pinch is used to teach another valuable
> lesson to the dog,
That his owner is a sadist and mental case.
"Warning: Sometimes The Corrections Will Seem
Quite Harsh And Cause You To Cringe. This Is A
Normal Reaction The First Few Times It Happens,
But You'll Get Over It."mike duforth, author:
"Courteous Canine."
You think HURTIN dogs and CRINGING
is COURTEOUS?
> and that is how to get out of pressure.
You mean, HOWE to stop you from HURTIN him?
That's EZ susan.
JUST STOP.
SEE?
> In advanced field work,
You mean, the work your SELECTIVELY BRED
HAND PICKED and TESTED RETRIEVER DOG
has been SELECTIVELY BRED for THOWESANDS
of years and C-HOWENTLESS GENERATIONS
to RETRIEVE?
> no matter how slowly and carefully we advance a
>dog, there will be times where she will willfully disobey.
Oh. It's back to the "ME" issue again, eh susan?
"Try pinching the ear between the metal
casing and the collar, even the buckle on
the collar. Persist! Eventually, the dog will
give in but will squeal, thrash around, and
direct their efforts to escaping the ear pinch"
That's really HOWE COME any of you bums
HURT your dogs to train them. Let's face it,
you've seen that hurting dogs to train them
doesn't work
You've seen that NOT hurtind dogs to train
them trains EVERY DOG NEARLY INSTANTLY.
Yet you WANT to HURT and INTIMIDATE dogs
cause you're a psychot sexual sadist.
> And for all the above listed reasons, she
> cannot have that option.
"This is continued resistance to your
increasing authority, and the job is
not done until it is overcome"
You mean if she doesn't fetch instantly a
gator that she didn't notice that you spotted
from thre hundred feet a way might snatch
her up?
Or a Willy's Jeep might come HOWETA the
bush and run her DHOWEN? Or she might
miss a lull in a wave and jump into a big
WON and get washed into the Atlantic?
Perhaps thems are all good reasons not
to be HOWET there doin stupid stuff like
murdering birdies for PLEASURE?
"You can press the dog's ear with a
shotshell instead of your thumb even
get a studded collar and pinch the ear
against that Make the dog's need to stop
the pinching so urgent that resisting your
will fades in importance.
CHUCK IT Under ITS Chin With That Ever
Ready Right Hand, As it catches on, try
using the stick and no ear pinch.
When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished
If the dog drops it, chuck it solidly
under the chin, say "No! Hold!"
(stay on the ear until it does) (perhaps
because the ear is getting tender, or the
dog has decided it isn't worth it)" lying
frosty dahl.
> It is *not* S.O.P. to just strap an ecollar on a
> dog and startpushing buttons -
Well, yeah it IS S.O.P. You're a HOWEtright liar.
FRAUDrecke does it JUST LIKE THAT cause
he's got a SCAM goin. He RUINS dogs at his
"seminars" and trains them to be 100% DEPENDENT
on his shock collars.
If you don't but the first day, you'll buy the
next cause your dog won't do NUTHIN unless
you got that shock collar to HURT him with.
> the dog is systematically taught what the stim means
You mean the shock. If you was capable
of systemically teachin the dog anything
you'd be able to teach a SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED for
THOWESANDS of generations RETRIEVER
DOG to RETRIEVE withHOWET HURTIN HIM.
Wouldn't you.
> and how to get out of it.
Some dogs opt for death.
> The dog cannot get hysterical,
> or sulky, or stubborn about it.
Well HOWE COME you suppose a
dog MIGHT get like that, susan?
> It's a matter of fact proposition -
The FACT IS, you HURT dogs cause
you're a Sadist. A sexual sadist, susan.
> I have the transmitter; you will comply.
INEEDY. Back to that "ME" thing again.
>So the dog is conditioned carefully to understand
IF the dog was "conditioned carefully to
UNDERSTAND," susan, the dog would
be CONDITIONED TO CAREFULLY DO
what he was "CONDITIONED CAREFULLY
TO UNDERSAND."
There's NUTHIN wrong with the DOG susan.
The DOG don't NEED to GET HURT. You
HURT dogs cause you don't know HOWE
to "CAREFULLY CONDITION" them.
Or you wouldn't NEED to HURT them.
Would you.
You think them dogs that have been SELECTIVELY
BRED and hunted for THOWESANDS of years
SUDDENLY FORGOT HOWE to HUNT till YOU
figgered HOWET HOWET to HURT THEM?
> that there is *always* a way to get out of a
> pressure situation.
You mean, when YOU HURT THEM.
> And if the trainer is worth his salt,
He'd have the INTELLECT to be able to
make a SELECTIVELY BRED for THOWESANDS
of years and THOWESANDS of generations
of CHUMPION RETRIEVER DOGS to RETRIEVE
withHOWET HURTING THEM.
And he'd be able to do that in 1/4 time it takes
you, using your shock collars and ear and toe
pinch and twist and choking and beating with
sticks, susan.
> the dog knows durn good and well what it is.
WON FINE DAY we're gonna have LAWS to
protect innocent dogs and gullible people from
sexual Sadists who HURT INTIMIDATE and
MURDER dogs for FUN and PROFIT or to
compensate for your fragile defective ego
inferiority complexes and weak fearful mind.
> So the crux of the matter is for the dog to
>take a correction stoically,
You mean, to let you HURT him. The
Amazing Puppy Wizard's dogs will
attack anyWON who tries to HURT
or force them, susan. That's HOWE
it SHOULD be.
>think rationally about the actions that produced it,
You mean, like if you forgot to take your meds
or maybe you're feelin a little insignificant, so
you take your dog HOWET and shock and
choke and beat him till you feel better.
Serviette?
> and make a concious decission to
> ammend its behavior to avoid another one.
Well susan, if you wanna see an INTELLECTUAL
discussion abHOWET "correcting" dogs in the
field, read "Swiss Cheese Method" where your
pal lying frosty dahl shocks a dog fifteen ways
to the middle till not even The Amazing Puppy
Wizard can figger HOWET what IT is supposed
to do.
Every thing you think you know abHOWET trainin
dogs is DEAD WRONG, or you'd NEVER NEED
TO HURT THEM... unless you LIKE hurtin them...
>This mental discipline is a learned behavior
You mean, when you failed to train IT do do
what you ask and you HURT IT cause you
failed to TRAIN IT to do what IT had been
SELECTIVELY BRED for THOWESANDS
of generations over THOWESANDS of years,
IT LEARNS YOU'LL HURT HIM for not knowin
what you wanted IT to do cause IT was
WORRIED abHOWET YOU HURTIN HIM?
> just like any other.
INDEED, susan. All behaviors are the
same same same same. We do not
HURT dogs cause a gator is comin
up behind them and we don't HURT
dogs cause they'll get killed if we
don't HURT them, susan.
Those are EXXXCUSES lying dog abusing
cowards and mental cases use to justify
HURTIN dogs cause they don't have the
INTELLECT to HOWEtwit the cunning of
the domestic puppy dog.
> And it starts right up close,
With the ear pinch.
> in my case literally in my lap,
Where you introduce the pup to gettin
your fingers shoved DHOWEN his
throat to gently choke IT HOWETA
MHOWETHING.
> where a small amount of pressure is applied
You mean PAIN, susan. PAIN, not PRESSURE.
PRESSURE is like when you put your hand to
your head and hold it to stop the voices. PAIN
is when the voices make you shock yourself
on your collar to make SHORE it FEELS GOOD
for your dog when you fail to make IT do as
you've CAREFULLY CONDITIONED IT to do
so long as you can HURT HIM.
> and the dog is gently guided to "turn it off"
> by performing a simple known behavior.
> No coddling for the same reason you don't
>coddle a dog afraid of a storm;
Well susan, perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME
your dog is afraid of LHOWED noises and
refused to go HOWET on your porch?
Dogs FEAR LHOWED NOISES cause their
abuser can't stop the noise any better than
you can stop the pervert in your head from
talkin in your ear, susan.
> it is just a mild discomfort,
INDEED?
>but she has the power to make it cease.
Serviette?
>There is a third reason.
You didn't take your anti psychotic meds
with a little food, susan?
> That is to teach a dog to do something no
> matter what distractions there are.
Oh? The Amazing Puppy Wizard sees
no difficulty for distractions, susan.
> The dog knows fetch. But to keep that
> focus even in the face of some discomfort
> is also a learned behavior.
You mean the discomfort of that gator
the the jeep or the briars, susan?
> This is the purpose behind the much
> misunderstood (and misapplied!) stick
> fetch.
Well susan, good thing you mention that.
The stick fetch is where you tie the dog on
a short lead to a tree and throw a bumper
in front of him just HOWETA reach and
beat him with the stick till he "REALLY
DIGS HOWET."
That's HOWE COME you wrote in here a
while back cause your dog was SHRIEKING
ON LINE cause you abused him like that.
>The dog is not hit as punishment.
RIGHT!
NoWON HITS DOGS here abHOWETS, susan.
That's HOWE COME we jerk and choke them
on pronged spiked pinch choke collars and shock
and spray aversives in their eyes and beat them
with sticks and chin chuck and pinch and twist
ears and toes, susan.
So the dog don't think we're ABUSING him.
NEVERY HIT YOUR DOG, susan. NEVER.
That's what your shock and choke collar
and trainin stick are abHOWET.
> The dog is tapped on her haunches as a distraction;
And THAT'S what makes her "REALLY DIG HOWET?"
You're a liar susan. That PROVES you're a MENTAL
CASE rather than just a ignorant know nuthin dog
abuser like FRAUDreck.
"When the dog is digging out to beat the
stick and seems totally reliable without
any ear pinch, you are finished," dahl.
> it's instinctive for a dog to respond to that
You mean, gettin abused?
> like a horse to trying to outrun the jockey's crop.
Right. THAT'S JUST A DISTRACTION, eh susan?
YOU'RE A LIAR A DOG ABUSER AND A MENTAL CASE.
> So the dog is told to fetch, and en route
> she is tapped on the haunches with a stick.
Well, THAT ain't HOWE it sez in lying frosty
dahl's INSTRUCTIONS on the "STICK FETCH
witHOWETthe Ecollar," published in the huntin
dog hurtin magazine.
> She has to keep focus and not give in
>to the urge to turn or tuck butt or freeze.
No. The dog is RESTRAINED and beatin
till it "REALLY DIGS HOWET."
lying frosty dahl called The Amazing Puppy
Wizard a LIAR cause HE misquoted and said
"REALLY DIGS IN."
Whatever the difference is, exists only in
the mind of a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR and
MENTAL CASE cause DECENT PEOPLE
DO NOT HURT DOGS and LIE ABHOWET
IT cause THAT is INSANE, susan... it's
MENTALLY ILL CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR.
> She has to fetch anyway.
You mean, anyHOWE.
> This is a very easy step if the dog has learned that
> when the ear is pinched she has to fetch anyway.
So you pinch the puppys ears before they
can hardly walk, to condition them to abuse.
>Now you've got a dog who will not be distracted
> or confused when she is told to fetch when guns
> are blaring,
Beatin the dog with a stick ain't gonna
make it not be gunshy, susan. IN FACT,
it'll make the dog MOORE FEARFUL.
Like YOUR DOG when he was SHRIEKING
ON LINE, susan.
REMEMBER?
> the water is icy, and there's a flapping bird
> she must pass by en route to the dead one
> floating away that she was sent to fetch.
Should take a few minutes to train a dog to
realize that and you wouldn't NEED to HURT
the dog, susan.
>Now, you might ask, what's so darn important
> about having a dog pick up a dead wild bird
> when I could just go to the grocery store and
> buy a dead bird to eat?
Well susan, this ain't abHOWET huntin,
this is abHOWET abusing animals for
your own psycho sexual sadistic ISM.
> (Or in having a dog pick up a piece of oddly
> shaped plastic that we threw away in the first place?)
You mean, the EZiest thing in the world for
a SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED and
TESTED for THOWESANDS of generation
and THOWESANDS of RETRIEVER DOG
CHUMPIONS, susan?
>Hmm, in my case, what's so damn important
> about that is that it's so damn important to my dogs.
You mean, the dogs jerk and choke shock
beat twist and pinch from puppyhood on to
force them to do the most natural thing in
the Whole Wild World for a RETRIEVER
dog to do, EVEN IF he ain't been SELECTIVELY
BRED fro CHOWENTLES THOWESANDS
of generations, susan?
>They are retrievers born and bred.
INDEED. Case closed. There ain't
no need to HURT them unless you're
a sexual sadist who enjoys HURTIN
dog and murdering dead birdies in
front of their Mrs. and childred before
he kisses them good mornin and has
breakfast with them.
> If there's a fault in it being so damn
> important to them,
You mean, so important that they love
to be hurt shocked choked beatin twisted
and pinched to have the opportunity to
REFUSE to do it?
Seems you're a little CONfHOWENDED, eh susan?
> it's that they were selectively bred-to-the-bone
> for it to be so damn important by human beings
>just so they could be exploited to work for us.
You been takin your meds, susan?
Seems you've had a mental breakdHOWEN.
>But take that as you may, they *are* retrievers.
Is THAT HOWE COME THEY REFUSE
and NEED to GET HURT?
> I understand the whole Force Fetch controversy
Do you NHOWE? There AIN'T no "controversy."
HURTING DOGS IS CRIMINALLY INSANE, susan.
> in the context that it would apply to a dog
> to whom getting to a fallen object in order
> to bring it back to its human is not a priority.
IOW, you only NEED to HURT your BEST
SELECTIVELY BRED for C-HOWENTELSS
GENERATIONS and HAND PICKED and
TESTED Retriever dogs when THEY REFUSE
TO WORK FOR YOU CAUSE YOU HURT THEM.
> But not when it is the dogs' compulsions that
> are being indulged by spendingmany thousands
> of hours together teaming up with them in order
>to refine how they do that job
Oh? They "DO THAT JOB" under DURESS.
That's what your shock collar and pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and trainin stick
are abHOWET, susan.
> they are obsessed with doing.
You mean, REFUSING to do cause you HURT them.
OtheWIZE you wouldn't NEED to HURT them.
WOULD YOU, susan.
>Its not about force and ego.
That so? The Amazing Puppy Wizard
sez you could train your dogs NEARLY
INSTANTLY withHOWET EVER HURTIN
them and they'll work BETTER than you
ever could imagine. IN FACT, you've SEEN
some dogs that have been trained withHOWET
FEAR FORCE and INTIMIDATION.
> Or rather if it *is* about force
> and ego, then I reserve the right
> to change my stance.
You mean, admit you're dead wrong
and need mental health care, susan?
>IOW, using force to make a dog do something
Sumpthin IT has been SELECTIVELY BRED
for THOWESANDS of years and C-HOWENTELSS
generations of CHUMPION FIELD DOGS, susan?
> basically distasteful to the dog *is* stupid.
No. Stupid is hurting dogs cause you don't
know any goddamend better. Stupid is listening
to lyign dog abusing punkg thug coward mental
cases who HURT and INTIMIDATE dogs and
call themselves EXXXPERT trainers and write
sado sexual doggy porn.
> What would be the fun in that?
You mean, in NOT HURTING dogs?
> It is so foreign to me to consider a person
> using undue force to get a reluctant dog to
> retrieve
IMAGINE?
> that I can't even imagine why someone would do that!
Nor can any decent reasonably intelligent human
being. Even little children know better than to
HURT and INTIMIDATE animals, susan.
>But to mold a retriever to be a partner
You mean, that SECLECTIVELY BRED HAND
PICKED and TESTED for C-HOWENTELSS
generatins of RETRIEVING DOG CHUMPIONS,
that dog you gotta shock choke pinch twist and
beat when IT REFUSES to do what you didn't
have the INTELLECT to TRAIN him to naturall
want to do as his line has done for C-HOWENTLESS
GENERATIONS withHOWET GETTIN HURT?
> in the job she was bred to perform,
Yeah. So you hurtin them dogs is your
mental illness, not a fault of the dog.
> to be a witness to her courage and
>heart as she rises to the challenges,
You mean when you push the big red button
marked BURN or beat IT with a stick?
Or did you mean when you pinch and twist
his ears and toes?
> for her to be physically and mentally conditioned
> and honed to the edge of her natural abilities
Yeah. You mean the natural ability you
gotta choke and shock and pinch and
twist and beat with sicks to elicit?
> while being challenged to learn and
> understand complex concepts,
You mean, go get the dead birdy who's
head you just blew clean off his neck in
front of his Mrs. and babies befor he
even got to say good mornin and have
breakfast, for your dog's pleasure?
Hey susan? If this was your dog's PLEASURE,
HOWE COME would he REFUSE to be pleasured?
> and for her to trust and respect her handler
Yeah. TRUST and RESPECT for his abuser.
>enough to persevere in the face of natural
> obstacles with style and intense pleasure
> in a job well done...
Like HOWE Retriver Dogs have done for
C-HOWENTLESS generations of RETRIEVER
CHUMPIONS, susan?
>Well if all that's the goal, of course there
> are some isolated instances of discomfort,
Only when you run HOWETA serviettes
and cold water, susan.
> some trials and tribulations to overcome,
> some lessons that must be learned the
> hard way.
INDEEDY. Welcome to The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Forum School Of HARD KNOCKS, susan,
where lying dog abusing cowards thugs punks
and active long term incurable mental cases
are IDENTIFIED EXXXPOSED and DISCREDITED
based on their own words.
The Amzaing Puppy Wizard relies on the
CONstructive approach, wherebye you
build a gallows on your own words and
The amazing Puppy Wizard pulls the floor
HOWET from under you and hoists you
on your own petard, susan.
Nuthin personal. That's just HOWE IT IS.
> In all the realms of extraordinary endeavor,
You mean like shocking beating choking
pinching and twisting innocent critters who've
been SELECTIVELY BRED for C-HOWENTLESS
generations for THOWESANDS of years, to
make them DO what they've been bred to do?
THAT IS, EXXXTRAORDINARY, susan.
EXXXTRAORDINARY.
> human or otherwise
Let's look at otherWIZE, susan. Decent
human beings DON'T HURT INNOCENT
CRITTERS for FUN and then try to blame
the CRITTER for INVITING YOU TO HURT HIM.
> there's a "no pain, no gain" factor.
INDEED. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
uses a hybrid koehler / Socratic method.
> Should we stop running when we get blisters,
Certainly not, susan. An intelligent person
would stop running pryor to blistering.
> or quit college when we are mentally exhausted?
Perhaps you never shoulda gone to college
susan, you don't even have the intellect to
HOWEtwit the cunning of the goddamened
domestic puppy dog.
You wanna sue the college that ripped you off?
> IS there such a thing as a rose-colored world
> where everything comes easy and cushy,
INDEEDY, susan. The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's CONSISTENTLY 100% NEARLY
INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW
Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual
Students all over the Whole Wild World
been tellin you abHOWET it since Robert
Crim MURDERED his DEAD DOG Fritz
cause sexual sadists like you told him not
to believe The Amazing Puppy Wizard cause
mentally ill lying dog abusing punk thug cowards
like you GOTTA HURT DOGS TO TRAIN THEM.
> but there are still reasons to strive
> for the things that would make that
> life really worth living?
INDEED?
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
All behavior problems including OCD's and
many physical DIS-EASES like ear infections,
self mutilation, urinary tract / bHOWEL / bladder
DIS-EASE, seizures, Addison's / Cusing's /
endocrine symptoms, even lameness, cataracts
and periodontal DIS-EASE are caused by STRESS
from mishandling as taught by HOWER dog lovers
and behavior EXXXPERTS like professor "SCRUFF
SHAKE and SCREAM 'NO!' into it's face for 5 seconds
and lock IT in a box for ten minutes reflection" dermer,
research associate at UofWI dept of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM.
"I posted this to rec.pets.dogs.health without
too much success. Things are beginning to
get much worse day by day and the vets seem
unable to help.
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusMed.WMV
http://www.oofus.com/pix/PoorRufusSmall.WMV"
THAT'S AN OCD. His owner CAUSED IT by
MISHANDLING and ABUSING his dog according
to the BEST advice of HOWER Gang Of Lying
Dog Abusing Punk Thug Cowards And ACTIVE
LONG TERM INCURABLE MENTAL CASES and
ASYLUM ESCAPEES.
From: The Puppy Wizard (ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net)
Subject: Re: PetSafe Radio Dog Fence ???
Date: 2004-02-29 12:53:40 PST
HOWEDY fish,
"Fish" <n...@spam.com> wrote in message
news:s9M_b.29783
>$w04.29...@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> THANKS SO MUCH for all the great advice.
INDEEDY! You've got some EXXXCELLENT
advice from liars dog abusers and active long
term incurable MENTAL PATIENTS.
> I'll go ahead with the PetSafe fence system
> as I only have to protect my dog from our
> landscaping.
Right. Didn't you see "Little Shop Of Horrors?"
Your landscapin could KILL your dog.
> I don't have an area under water for my dog to
> play in and I have a physical fence on the other
> side of all the landscaping so I think the PetSafe
> system will work out fine (from your advice).
Your dog is DYIN from STRESS, cause you're
a dog abuser, fish.
> I just want to protect my dog from any harmful
> plants and protect my landscaping (that cost
> enough to protect...lol).
INDEED:
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
> Thanks again everyone...
From: Jo Wolf (wol...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: How to protect harmful landscaping from dog? Date:
2004-02-16 21:35:03 PST
The invisible fence often works for this use. Better than as a
fence to keep the dog in the yard. Also the above-ground
electric wire type fence will often work for this... install
at mid-chest height.
Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia
From: Fish (n...@spam.com)
Subject: Re: Foot problem
Date: 2004-02-07 17:37:56 PST
Hey Emily,
Your post hits home as my male 2 year old Yellow Lab (Tyson)
gets ear infections often and has the habit of licking his
paws often. It hasn't gotten extremely bad yet with the
licking, but I did need to make a trip to the vet once as his
paw was getting really raw.
He eats Eukanuba large breed dog food now and has
since he was 6-9 months old (Eukanuba puppy food
for medium breed when he was young). He also does
get some people food from the table on occasion (mostly
healthy food...chicken, vegetables, eggs, etc..)
Could his ear infection and paw licking be a result from
allergies from this food?
He gets about one ear infection a month on average
and licks his paws (and arm) very often.
Thanks...
==================
His dog is self mutilating and suffering
auto immune DIS-EASE from STRESS.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD)
Date: 2004-01-16 18:36:40 PST
HOWEDY People,
Works for dogs as it works for people... except dogs need far
less trauma stress and mistrust to make them psychotic cause
they can't rationalize that their abuser LOVES them and HURTS
them to keep them SAFE.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good
of its victims, may be the most oppressive. Those
who torment us for our own good will torment us
without end, for they do so with the approval of
their own conscience." - C.S. Lewis.
Figger it HOWET, People.
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD): A very real condition
By Dr. Abraham Twerski, M.D.
http://www.jewishworldreview.com |
It is rather strange that a condition which should have easily
been identified on the basis of common sense was not
recognized by the psychiatric profession until relatively
recently. The term Post Traumatic Stress Disorder did not
appear in the American Psychiatric Association manual until
1980. The reason this is important is because it indicates an
attitude that can have bearing on recognizing the problem and
instituting proper treatment.
After World War I, soldiers who showed symptoms of anxiety,
irritability, nightmares and inability to cope with life were
considered to have "a bad state of nerves" which was termed
"shell shock." It was thought that they were cowards who
wished to evade combat. They were subject to shame and
threatened with court-martial. It wasn't until 1941 that the
first clinical study entitled The Traumatic Neuroses of War
was published.
The author, Dr. Kardiner, pointed out that war neurosis was
considered by many physicians to be a "hysterical neurosis,"
and that this term led people to think that the patient was
weak willed, malingering and trying to get something for
nothing. After World War II, a more enlightened attitude
developed, with the realization that prolonged combat could
break even the strongest soldier, and that the psychiatric
casualties of war were as real and as inevitable as gunshot
and shrapnel wounds. It was not until the Vietnam war that the
condition of "traumatic neurosis" was legitimized.
The resistance to recognizing that trauma can have long-term
psychological effects still persists. Although there is
sympathy for those who were victims of catastrophic trauma
such as an earthquake, tornado or terrorist attack, there is a
less positive attitude toward people who sustained personal
trauma. As a result, people who have suffered personal trauma
are hesitant to seek help for their problems. They may do
their utmost to cope and may actually function quite well, but
the unresolved residuals of the trauma may cause emergence of
symptoms at any time. Shame and guilt may result in the memory
of the trauma being buried in the subconscious mind, beyond
one's awareness.
Children who suffered abuse or molestation may have
difficulties in school performance and socialization. A
variety of pedagogic and psychological techniques may be used
to help them, but as long as the trauma remains a secret and
unattended, they are not likely to succeed. The emotional
aftermath of childhood trauma may cause serious disturbances
in marriage and in parenting. People seeking psychological
help may not even recall traumatic events of childhood. These
must be skillfully elicited and dealt with.
Young children are extremely impressionable, and childhood
trauma may have a much greater impact than similar trauma in
adulthood.
After World War II, some psychiatrists tried to treat the
combat neurosis by administering sodium amytal ("truth
serum"). Under the effect of this drug, some patients were
able to recall and describe the trauma. However, mere
recollection did little to relieve their symptoms. What is
necessary is an understanding and integration of the
experience into consciousness. One must become aware of the
emotions incident to the trauma, how they have caused the
memory to be walled off and how they are affecting one's
current behavior.
Symptoms of PTSD can occur anywhere from days to years after
the trauma. Their effect on a person's functioning may range
anywhere from minimal to totally disabling.
The primary symptoms fall into three categories:
Hyperalertness, Intrusions and Suppression.
Hyperalertness means that the person is constantly on guard,
as if danger is lurking and may occur at any moment. He is
easily startled by noises or by any unexpected movement. The
ring of an alarm clock or someone entering the door without
knocking may trigger a reaction. The mind may perceive these
as a threat, and the body may respond with the features of the
"fight or flight" reaction. A person with hyperalertness may
find it impossible to relax. He may have difficulty in falling
asleep and may awaken several times during the night, with or
without nightmares. Sleep deprivation may result in poor
concentration, impaired memory and moodiness.
People who live with expectation of danger may actually
precipitate some mishap. The tension and suspense that
something terrible is going to happen may be so intolerable
that they do something "to get it over with." They may start a
business venture and do something to make it fail. They may
have a good relationship and act in a manner that will make
the other person reject them. They may be more prone to
accidents. Each failure or accident may reinforce their
feeling that the world is stacked against them.
The consequences of their anxiety breeds more anxiety in a
vicious cycle that is reminiscent of the words of Job, "I felt
great anxiety, and what I feared would happen did happen to
me" (Job 3:25).
A person should experience joy in life. People with morbid
expectations may be unable to accept feeling joy. They may
fear that if they enjoy something they may lose it. One young
mother with PTSD said that she dreads walking over to the
baby's crib for fear that she would not find the child alive.
"I don't feel I deserve to have such a beautiful baby." There
was no logic to this fear. It was a symptom of her expecting
something terrible to happen. Parents with PTSD who have
morbid expectations may be so overprotective of their children
that they cause them to become hyperalert and anxious and
stifle their growth.
Intrusion means that the traumatic incident keeps coming back
and intruding into their awareness. Any one of many things
that is in any way reminiscent of the traumatic incident may
cause the person to feel he is reliving it. This is called a
"flashback." In order to avoid flashbacks the person may
restrict his activities to avoid something that may trigger
one. The person may avoid reading a newspaper, a book, or
meeting people who may in some way trigger a flashback. He may
become isolated and socially withdrawn. For example, some
Holocaust survivors may avoid reading anything referring to
the Holocaust, or even meeting other survivors for fear of
experiencing a flashback of terror. Night terrors in the way
of dreams are intrusive.
People who have experienced a personal assault at night may
not leave their homes at night. A child who leaves the home at
night may trigger an intrusive thought, and they may forbid
their children to go out at night.
Suppression refers to keeping the thought out of awareness.
Because it is a subconscious process it should more correctly
be referred to as "repression." It is similar to the bodily
defense of fainting upon an acute pain so that the pain cannot
be felt. Some people describe the experience of a trauma as
though it was not happening to them. This repression can occur
both at the moment of the trauma or at any time later.
Something which is too painful to realize may be banished from
awareness
Clinically, this is especially important in cases of child
molestation. The memory of the experience may be so laden with
the negative feelings of fear, shame and guilt, that the
person may not recall it. Nevertheless, the memory exists in
the subconscious mind, from where the noxious feelings of
fear, shame and guilt associated with the incident continue to
exert their effect. The person may be depressed and/or have
problems ranging from low self-esteem to loathing oneself,
without a clue as to why one feels that way. She may employ
any of the coping tactics described in my book Life's Too
Short. Difficulties in interpersonal relationships and
disturbances of marriage may be the result of such incidents.
Because the causative trauma is not recalled, the person may
attribute these difficulties to a variety of other causes,
none of which are true. Even in therapy, the focus may be on
resolving these other causes, which does nothing to alleviate
the problem because the real cause is not addressed.
Some people may recall a traumatic incident and even describe
it, but the memory is devoid of emotion and meaning. Allowing
oneself to think about the memory might bring back the painful
feelings one wishes to avoid.
Rape is one of the most devastating traumas a human being can
experience. Proper management of the acute trauma may help
forestall severe PTSD, but support and therapy may be
necessary for a longer time. A man who had been mugged at
night developed a fear of night. He took a job where he worked
from 11PM to 8 AM, because that enabled him to stay awake all
night. He was frightened of being defenseless when asleep.
The feeling of loss of control that is characteristic of
trauma may result in strange ways of trying to gain control.
Some people may develop superstitions or magical thinking.
Some people may say that they had premonitions of a disaster
and that they have omens about what may happen. Some may
convince themselves that they brought the trauma onto
themselves, and although this may cause them to feel guilty,
the idea of "I caused it" can mean "because I made it happen,
I can make it not happen." Ironically, the painful feeling of
guilt may provide a modicum of relief because it may give them
a sense of control. This may also explain recurrent
nightmares.
The two symptoms, intrusion and suppression, have opposite
effects. Intrusion tries to bring the trauma into awareness,
and suppression tries to keep it out of awareness. The person
with PTSD is caught in the middle, vacillating between states
of intense emotion and no feeling at all. This why the person
may be unstable and unpredictable, alternating between
impulsive behavior and no action at all.
With so many possible symptoms, mood alternation and
unpredictable behavior, the person with PTSD may be
erroneously diagnosed and treatment may be ineffective. It is,
therefore, important to be aware of PTSD, to prevent it when
possible, to recognize it early, and to institute proper
treatment.
---------------------------------------------------------------
------------- ---- Abraham J. Twerski, M.D. is a psychiatrist
and ordained rabbi. He is the founder of the Gateway
Rehabilitation Center in Pittsburgh, a leading center for
addiction treatment. An Associate Professor of Psychiatry at
the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, he is a
prolific author, with some 30 books to his credit. He has
recently launched a new 12 step program for self esteem
development www.12steps2selfesteem.com
=======================
Here's an alternative SOLUTION:
"Death is better, a milder fate than tyranny",
Aeschylus (525BC-456BC), Agamemnon.
FIGGER IT HOWET.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Date: 2000/04/11
Subject: Pride goeth before this post <g>
There were gale force winds (really!) and and her flyer hooked around
and was
way deep and fought her all the way back and she *one-whistled the land
blind*,
and for the water series we were in a sand pit and her first bird
rolled down
the cliff to the base in heavy cover and the other floated into a
crevase in
the bank, and there were *whitecaps* in the open water in a channel
blind...
and I'm real proud of my baby Shammie for getting the last leg of her
Senior
Hunter at the most difficult retriever hunt test I've ever seen!!! (Her
4th
consecutive qualifying test - three last season before it ended.)
For those of you new folks still trying to sort out Jer-jer's rants
about
"advanced training", please realize that this little golden retriever,
who had
just turned two years old this week, did astonishing feats that took
memory and
perservance and courage and vision and nose and tons of instinct and an
almost
equal amount of experience and control, and there's NO WAY we would
have been
there without some of the advanced training methods that Jer doesn't
have the
foggiest notion of - what they are, how they are done, why they are
needed, or
how humanely they can be adminstered.
But believe me, my little gal was torqued to the max over the
experience (the
phrase "breaking her spirit" puts me into paroxyms of laughter!!). I
really
wish you all could have seen the intensity, the focus, the effort, and,
after
it was over, the sheer unadulterated JOY she took in her work!
<You can all stop reading now; the rest is an indulgence in bragging on
her.
Don't care if you read it or not. :->
We got out to the Spillway just as the sun was comming up, and I let
the dogs
run off steam for almost an hour (I didn't even have a leash with me -
but no
problem, they blitz back at the sound of a whistle) but every time I
took
Shammie out all day, she bounded like an antelope, and her serious
little
forehead wrinkles cracked me up - she was hyperaware of all the other
dogs and
guns and birds and calls and shots, etc.
But when I told her "Heel - Loooook", she fell in beside me and we
crept
quietly along until BANG a bird flew up almost in our face and two
shots rang
out, and it fell. Sham was quivering, but remained staunch by my side
until the
judge said "dog" and when I released her, she scooped the duck up, and
I let
her carry it to the line to calm her down. The she gently gave it to me
and
came to sit beside me where I sat.
We waited a few centuries:-), then a shot came from some cover about
125 yards
to our left. Shammie watched the bird fall from that station. Then she
swung
around, following where I was pointing with the gun, as a duck flew out
to our
right at about 100 yards, and was felled. Again she quivered but waited
until
the judge said "dog" and I relaeased her. She ran, bursting through
brush and
brambles, leaping two ditches, down into a shallow bog and back into
sight,
directly to the area the bird fell. She put her nose down, and trailed
immediately back about 20 more yards to the duck, grabbed it securely,
and ran
back to my side. She lined herself up to look at that first fallen bird
to our
left, and when I took the duck from her mouth, she crouched at the
ready,
letting me know she knew where the next retrieve was.
When I said "back", she took off hell bent for leather across more
broken
terrain, not fading with the 30 mph crosswind nor hooking with a road
she
crossed at an angle, and put on the brakes at the exact location of the
bird
lying in the grass. She scooped it up at a run, and started back to me.
On the
way back, a gun was fired, and she stopped, bird in mouth, and looked
for
something to fall, but there was nothing to see. A hidden person had
just
"planted" a bird about 20 degrees to the left of where she had just
gone.
So when she delivered that bird to me, I told her "dead bird" and she
sat and
looked out in the direction my hand was pointing, and when I said
"back" she
again took off hell bent for leather in that direction, just because
she
trusted me to know where a bird was that she had not seen fall. The
wind was
strong pushing her to the right back to where she had just picked up
the last
bird, and the road led that direction, too. But she ignored all these
factors,
and fought to maintain the straight line I had sent her on. When she
was within
about 20 feet of the planted "blind" bird on the ground, I could tell
she would
pass just upwind, so I blew one piercing blast on my whistle into the
teeth of
the wind. She immediately spun and sat and looked to me for direction.
I raised
my right arm over my head, and said "back", and she spun to her left
(she was
facing me) and corrected her line just the few degrees it took for her
to
intercept the bird on the ground.
But she was running so fast that, just as she passed the spot where the
bird
lay, I blew the whistle to stop her in case she didn't wind the smell
on her
own. She spun, looking to the ground where the bird lay - it was
obvious that
she could see and smell it at her feet - but *she sat anyway* and
waited for my
cast to pick it up. Bless her little gold heart, the gallery applauded
her all
the way back in!
Then she sat quietly at my side and watched another dog get all the
same birds!
And then heeled back to the van, where she took a bow-wow and "boinged"
and
caught tennis balls in the air for the kids who were hanging out with
us. (We
were the only goldens and Sham's a real trickster with the kids - so
now
they're all telling their lab-dads that they want a golden!)
Anyway, that was just the land series - by the water series that
afternoon, the
wind had picked up even more, and only 10 out of the 36 senior dogs
entered
even picked up all of the birds.
She was even more amazing in the water series, but I'll leave that to
your
imagination... ;-/
Yes, she's had her ear pinched in training. (Search my name and "force
fetch"
in Deja to read a description.) But I'll *guarantee* that Saturday she
ran
through brambles that hurt more, which she didn't even notice. And yes,
she's
been conditioned to a shock collar, but I'll *guarantee* that those
quivering
pauses before the judge released her were far more traumatic to her
than a low
level buzz on her collar.
Please understand that Shammie would not be content as a house pet.
She's got
generations of hard-core field genes in her. And for her to do what we
did
Saturday took training that most pet owners wouldn't be interested in.
But her
life would not be complete if I didn't do something like this with her.
Jerry doesn't understand. Probably, neither do most of the people who
quit
reading a dozen paragraphs ago.
So here I am, preaching to the choir again... :->
Susan Fraser,
owned and trained by
HR BeBop a Lu SheBop, JH, SH
and
HR Shamma Lamma Ding Dong, JH, SH
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Date: 1997/10/29
Subject: BORED W/KOEHLER? TRY THIS!!....YOU CAN'T
"CONTROL FREAK" THE MUZZLE!!
ATTENTION FANS WORLDWIDE.....
This is my LAST BOOK THREAD! ANYTHING YOU SAY HERE,
CAN AND MIGHT end up in my book. So don't whine about it, or
complain about copyright violations etc...This is my book, and if
you don't want to be in it, simply don't respond.
Now that I've scared most of you away, let's proceed.
I hereby do cease and desist the premeditated and domineering
tactics I have used to subjugate, appropriate, and liberate this
newsgroup, known as rec.pets.dogs.behavior, away from the loud
and swaggering despot so named, Dogman. Now, I too shall pass,
but not before a final confrontation with the posters known as "Control
Freaks"
I have Conquered the Koehler Nazis...(long before DogPsych--who
is, in all likelihood, Cynologic--)
The "Psychologists" have bowed to me like France to the Nazis...
But it is has been YOU, CONTROL FREAKS who have stood the longest
and fought the bravest, and are the most numerous; you never shut up,
and I commend you for your valor. No matter how many times I spank,
you come back for more.
It has been YOU:
JBoss......(alpha QB control freak)....you
Diane Blackman....you
Terri McCauley....you
Lablover..........you
Denna Lasik.......you
Carol Dunster.....you
Lynn K........... you
Ann,...............you
Twzl,..........and, of course you
Sligo (AmCAnChpaX TC CA. MSG BMP, TDK, etc,,....)....you
Sandra Pover......You The Breeders who I don't get much of a
chance to chat with....
And the rest of you FREAKS too numerous to mention. Without your
nannying, yammering, backbiting, nagging, harping and blathering,
the Muzzle would not nearly be in so much need of Changing as it
Clearly is. I thank you all.
And now, let us proceed to a CLASSIC EXAMPLE of one of your own, yes:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A CONTROL FREAK FREAKING OUT:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Heather Pace (Denna Lasik) wrote:
..
> PUPPIES SHOULD NEVER, EVER, BE TAKEN FROM THE
> MOTHER UNTIL THEY ARE 8 WEEKS OF AGE! DOGS
> SHOULD NEVER, EVER, BE BRED WITHOUT GENETIC
> TESTING! BIG DOGS SHOULD NEVER, EVER, BE BRED
> WITHOUT OFA CERTIFICATION! And I don't care where the
> parents came from, IF THEY HAVEN"T BEEN EVALUATED
> BY A (or preferably several) EXPERIENCED BREEDERS OR
> JUDGES FOR CONFORMATION AND PERSONALITY, THEY
> DON'T NEED TO BE PRODUCING PUPPIES!!!!!!!!!!
>
> Ok, I'm sorry. I'm done screaming now. I just get sooo pissed
> off (there's no other word for it) at ignorant people like this.
> These people are the reason thousands of families go through
> the heartbreaking experience of putting down dogs with genetic
> disorders, and the reason millions of dogs and puppies are killed
> in shelters.
\
Heather, er... Denna
You're going to think this is a troll and that's fine, but the reason
millions of dogs and puppies are killed in shelters has virtually
nothing to do with someone who breeds two Chocolate Labradors
without genetic/OFA/Conformation/Personality etc...testing, much
as though my saying that is going to make you want to pull your
hair out and scream.
Ditto for Genetic Diseases, these having been proliferated to noxious
levels by so-called "reputable" show breeders who have depleted the
gene pool in their lust for beauty, concentrating perceived "good"
traits
along with the "bad" ones which tag along on chromosomes for the
free ride.
This is EXACTLY WHY they need to do so damn much testing...
I'm sure it makes you CONTROL FREAKS feel good to vent your anger like
this, when somebody breeds w/o testing, but it isn't doing much good.
Dogs aren't dying in shelters because of genetic disease or BAD
BREEDING. They're dying because we JUST DON'T CARE ABOUT DOGS in this
country. I mean, we here on this newsgroup, we're the
radicals who are "supposed" to love dogs, and look how quick people
are here to say a dog should be "put down."
How ARROGANT a species are we, to say that our supposed best
friend should be killed for trivial reasons such as digging, barking,
chewing, peeing, biting etc??? *We* are the most despicably violent
and EVIL species ever to walk the earth, yet WE, DARE, totalitarianize
and dictate how another (extremely peaceful by comparison) species
should behave so that he may live in our divine presence?
Excuse me while I laugh...
The things that America, the Land of the Free
and the home of the Rich value are:
AUTOMOBILES
CHEAP GAS
HOUSES
MONEY
LAND
CONVENIENCE
Not necessarily in that order, oh,
And Living in "developments" at least two hours from where we work,
and from black people, or at least they should be "Cosby Type"
black people if we have to live with them.
and way down here are
THE CHILDREN....
and now come
DOGS
IRS AGENTS
TELEMARKETERS
Well, at least dogs aren't last.
Dogs, for the majority of Americans, despite what they say
publically, are a disposable item. They're like a car you trade in, or
a a defective piece of merchandise to be returned when it doesn't work
the way we thought it would. And we get that mindset from you CONTROL
FREAKS, who THINK you are the answer, when you're really the PROBLEM.
That's right, you're the PROBLEM, and if you don't think so, you better
say so now, or see my words in print by the million with no chance to
defend yourselves...
You FREAKS self-righteously believe that your obnoxious elitism and
nauseating eugenics are what is needed to save all the dogs on death
row, but you're wrong. And if you are right, then we are an even more
despicable species than I had previously imagined.
Throughout the ages, we've asked all that we can f
rom the dog and we can ask no more.
"Attention, Houston, this is the Grey Goose,
all the blood has been squeezed from stone."
We've asked the dog to look perfect and act perfect and
dance around the show ring in perfect harmony....
We've asked him to defend us with his life, to protect our belongings
and warn us danger. We've asked him to offer up his body so that we
may
live in times of famine. We've asked him to sleep outside in a wooden
shack for his whole life. We've asked him to eat the same bland food
every day of his existence. We've asked him to be perfect and hold his
bladder in a cage for hours on end. We've asked him never to try to
run
away from the prison of his fenced yard, and we've asked to accept our
beatings when he tries.
And we've asked our supposed best friends to provide unconditional
love, to be eternally faithful, to never bite the hand that feeds him,
and to adjust to our unnatural lifestyle patterns, yet we kill him in
an
instant when he presents a "problem."
"A dog like that doesn't deserve to live" we say.
As we are to the Gods, so are the Dogs to us, "Like flies to
wanton children, they kill us for sport." (paraphrasing someone)
And now you FREAKS want genetic miracles who are perfect in every way.
That's your solution? No "Problems Allowed." No barking, no noise, no
energy, no fighting, no whining, no having to go to the bathroom in the
middle of the night like we do. No drooling, no mixing of breeds, no
muddy paws, no chasing of cats, no chewing of drywall, no prey drive,
no anxiety, no running, no jumping, no problems, no problems,
NO PROBLEM!
In short, No Dog.
If only stuffed animals could love us.....?
Do you Freaks really think that Hitler was right, that the best way to
get the best progeny is by EUGENICS AND CONTROL FREAKING?
Do you honestly believe you can get a Tiger Woods or a Mariah
Carey by Control Freaking, Genetic Testing and Eugenics?
No, Fools, You CAN'T legislate the perfect dog. You CAN'T
control it. You CAN'T Nanny it, you CAN'T regulate it.
You CAN'T test for it. You CAN'T mass produce it.
Anything in this world that becomes isolated for too long, gets
weaker. Whether it is a country like Japan, a breed like the Golden
Retriever, a race a culture, a school of thought. You name it.
Isolation Whether geographic, genetic, cultural, physical,
intellectual,
psychological etc...equals death.
Atrophy, implosion, senescence and empires falling down.
I know I'm spanking you Freaks hard right now, but it's for your own
good. I don't want to be guilty of none other than William Koehler's
most ULTIMATE of ALL PHYSICAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL CRUELTIES, yes, folks,
that, of course, of UNDER CORRECTION.
In fact, here's the Father of All Modern Dog Training, himself
on the cruelty of under correction, adapted for the modern
CONTROL FREAK:
Regarding the Control Freaking "Backslider":
An indelible impression can sometimes be made by giving
the control freak a hard spanking of long duration,
then leaving him (her) by tied to the mess (post)
he's (she's) made and come back at twenty minute intervals and
punish ....again for the same thing. In most cases, the
control freak....cannot be made reliable by the light spanking
some owners (Muzzle Changing ZenMasters) think is
adequate punishment. It will be better for the your control
freak if you really pour it on."
See, DogPsych, Koehler had a few good ideas....
So, despite all the yammering, brow beating, crying
screeching and blathering emanating from you control
freaks......you're *wasting* your time.
Most genetic diseases are simply not detectable, especially the most
common one, hip dysplasia. Most hip dysplasia testing, while it makes
everybody feel good, is simply a waste of time and money. It's simply
NOT effective enough, or reliable or even accurate enough to justify
the
enormous expense. It's basically a cash cow for the OFA and PennHip
people, but it's not doing a whole hell of a lot of good for dogs,
especially when the disease, nor the genetics are even understood by
the
EXPERTS, much less the breeders, "reputable" "backyard" or otherwise.
I bet this person, who did no testing, will have no higher, nor any
lower incidence of hip dysplasia than any other breeder who did, in
fact, spend all that money on those tests.
And here's the main reason you Control Freaks sound like idiots
when you talk about getting the "ideal" dog from the "reputable
breeder"
Listen up Fans, because I'm about to say something very important,
AGAIN. The people on this newsgroup who have done the most research
and done everything by the book, and who have taken the most time
and care in choosing their puppies, are the ones who complain about
their dogs the MOST.
Great Expectations.....a prescription for disappointment.
========================================
Let's look at Terri McCauley for instance.
==========================================
She did everything by the book, got the finest breeder whatever yadda
yadda yadda. All she does is complain about her dogs. That they squat
when they pee. That they are dense or don't listen. That they act
like
Goldens....etc...etc...It's obvious she loves her dogs, but it's also
quite obvious they are *not* everything she ever dreamed she'd get by
doing everything "by the book."
========================
How about Avrama Gingold?
=========================
All we hear about is this "Same Sex Aggressive" Dobe. Over and over.
I
thought if you did everything right, you would get a dog with a perfect
temperament and no problems? Oh, I get it, but same sex aggressiveness
is a GOOD thing for you, right, Avrama? But I bet if I had a same sex
aggressive Dobe and I talked about it all the time, people would tell
me
how "BADLY BRED" my dog was. Ah, the ZenMaster double standard rears
its ugly head once again.
==============================
Let's consider Alicia A. Knapp?
===============================
I'm not sure if you did everything by the book, Alicia, but it's also
obvious, that your "washed out" show dog didn't quite turn out like you
expected. And your bitches aren't like the inimitable and proverbial
Grendel was, and you seem to wish they were. Maybe if you had gone
to a more "reputable breeder" you could have gotten another Grendel?
It seems the only person who did everything "by the book" and got
something he doesn't complain about is:
======================================
Robert C. He's got Fritz the Wonderdog.
======================================
But let's look at WHY he's happy with his dog. I'm betting it's
because
he DIDN'T get Fritz the Wonderdog EXPECTING him to BE SOMETHING.
He just got him as a friend for an ex hippie/turned establishment guy
who is at conflict with the world and just wanted a friend to hang out
with while listening to Limbaugh or playing warty football in the
backyard,
fixing up his ex-hippie VW van and pining for the weed his wife won't
let him smoke anymore...
Pause for effect....
I think people like Joyce (JR) and Lois have better relationships with
their dogs, because they didn't get their dogs "Expecting them to BE
something."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
PRIMARY OFFENDER:
CHINCHUBA (Susan Fraser)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Who complained about her "carefully chosen" dog so much
she had to resort to a SHOCK COLLAR for puppy biting.
You knuckleheads who blabber about doing everything
possible to get the best dog in the world are only fooling
yourselves, and if it makes you feel good, more power to ya.
But please stop yammering at the newbies and lying to them.
Hey Newbies. You can get a GREAT DOG from ANYWHERE!!!!
From a PET STORE
From a "REPUTABLE" BREEDER
From A "BACKYARD" BREEDER
From a diligently PLANNED BREEDING
From an ENTIRELY ACCIDENTAL BREEDING
From the SIDE OF THE ROAD
From a HOLE IN THE GROUND
From the DOG POUND
From MARS or VENUS
From Kweisi Mfume
From Michelle N'dgeOchello, Marv Alpert, Daisy Fuentes
or From the CRAZY LADY NEXT DOOR
>From ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
None of this is to say there is no value in wise and judicious
breeding,
it is only to shut up the idiots who keep screaming nonsense that isn't
helping ANYTHING, ANYONE or ANYDOG.
Dogs need people who care about them and understand their needs.
Dogs need people who don't foist expectations and frustrations upon
them
Dogs need exercise.
Dog need room to run.
They need other dogs.
They need variety.
They need for us to slow the F&##*& down and look at them for once
And then look at ourselves and ask the one in the mirror....
What is MY PROBLEM behavior?
What about ME needs to be fixed?
Should *I* be destroyed?
Am *I* incorrigible?
What about my SOCIETY needs to be changed?
What about my expectations needs CORRECTING?
And most importantly, what DOGS NEED, is people who
care more about "Having a dog," than about "NOT HAVING
A PROBLEM"
And they don't need
Control Freaks;
Or Nannies;
Or wailing, screeching, fretting, bellowing dramatic accusers!
Nor do they need Eugenicists and Elitists
Hell, come to think of it, what they need, is
ME, and the CHANGING OF THE MUZZLE!!!
> Denna Lasik
> recovering from her temper tantrum
Denna, this is not directed at you, so don't be offended, it's directed
at the whole of Control Freakdom, you just provided a perfect soundbite
to launch my brilliant tirade which will probably be reproduced in my
book, in it's entirety.
I want to thank anyone in advance who is brave enough to respond to
this. And if nobody responds, that's great, because it's perfect as it
stands...
But I (sincerely) want to thank all of you, especially those of you who
have had the guts to be combative with me in this international forum
for the past eleven months or so. We have made eachother stronger.
Bye all.
I'll still be watching you and I will hang around for the remainder of
this
thread. Plus I'll keep everyone updated from time to time on the
progress/release of my book/video with new and improved pages.
Michael Patton
aka "the ZenMaster"
aka
--The ZenMan
But this time you supported
some wildass dog who is barely recognized as
a pack member by the other dogs.
--Joyce Roberts
"the Jesus of dogs is here"
--Robert C.
Zen Guerrilla Dog
Changing The Muzzle of Dog Training
http://members.aol.com/Zzendog/Vigor.html
http://members.aol.com/Skilllz/Bitch.html
http://members.aol.com/intreppid/Winning.html
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
clip......."Nero" practicing bark alert, while walking
backwards on dogwalk.
HOWEDY susan,
"Susan Fraser" <chinch...@aol.comdog> wrote in message
news:20040605233003...@mb-m20.aol.com...
> I concur
Well, ain't THAT special???
> on the correlation of much more enlightened
> retriever training mirroring the evolution of the
> ecollar.
That so? What the heel are you trying to say?
What you SAID was MEANINGLESS hot air.
What you're TRYING to say is SHOCKING dogs
has made them better retrievers. Well, there's
ZERO scientific evidence in support of that and
there's TONS of scientific DATA proving quite
the opposite.
Therefore, your statement is not only dHOWEbletalk,
but the intended message is a FLAT HOWET LIE.
> > However, in response to this:
> > Dogs themselves are also *much* more biddable
> > these days,
You mean, NHOWE that you can HURT
and INTIMIDATE them at great distances.
> > and there's more of them to go around.
Well, that's on accHOWENT of ETHICKAL
breeders like tommy soronson and lying
frosty dahl keep breeding for better dogs
that won't object to gettin beat choked
shocked and hung.
> In some ways, I guess.
You been takin your anti psychotic meds?
> But I recently wrote an article
You write for a click 'n nick list, expert trainers
like shirly chung, HOWER CRAP HOWES trainer.
> called "Driven: The Evolution of a Field Trial Retriever"
> wherein I basically contend that today's FT retrievers
> are different "Beasts" than in the pre-collar days.
INDEEDY. As EXXXAMPLE, your own dog
that was SHRIEKING ON LINE cause you
shocked him to motivate him to "REALLY
DIG HOWET" as in lying frosty dahl's
STICK FETCH withHOWET the Ecollar."
Perhaps THAT'S HOWE COME she does
that by beatin the dog with the stick instead
of shokin IT like HOWE you done, eh susan?
> Specifically, much more high drive.
INDEED. That "DRIVE" is FEAR that makes
your dog SHRIEK ON LINE and cost you points.
You don't mind that the REASON he's SHRIEKING
is cause you SHOCK him to MOTIVATE HIM.
> Here's a link to it:
>http://mypeoplepc.com/members/chinchuba/goldensinthenews/id1.html
The Amazing Puppy Wizard will review your text.
> Goldens in the News
> Featured Article: DRIVEN
> Driven: the Evolution of a Field Trial Retriever
> (This article is the intellectual property of Susan Fraser.
NHOWE there's a oxymoron for ya. Beats the
crap HOWETA "military intelligence"!!!
> Contact me for permission to repost or
> reprint in any form.)
We're talkin education on a pubic forum.
>Under the shroud of early morning mist, a tempest boils.
Well, perhaps you should take a couple
mind altering phamacuticals before gettin
HOWETA bed?
> Eddies swirl as the Man stalks the field, stomping
> the damp earth and slashing his way through bracken
> and brier. He pauses at intervals to rail at the mist,
> trying to dissipate it through sheer force of will,
>punctuated with upraised fist and muffled curses.
We can control such frontal lobe HOWEtbursts
with medication and surgery.
>Gradually the slanting rays of sun burn the air clear
> to reveal the bird boys frozen in place, poised, focused
> on the Man, each in turn awaiting a seminal flicker of
> his hand.
Serviette?
Well, that's HOWE COME The Amazing Puppy
Wizard recommends you keep all your medications
on your bedstand and have some water handy. If
you're unSHORE of when you last took your
medication it's probably best to start over than
risk the very real dangers of life withHOWET
a chemical straight jacket.
Don't forget, in the twenties you mighta
been locked in a closet like lois e's auntie,
cause she was SIMPLE.
> One by one they spring into the ritualized dance
>that flings heavenward the object of the quest to come.
Yeah. Perfect opportunity to blow their freakin heads off.
> Their shots tear the still air and echo in the distance,
>sending raucous swarms of lesser birds scattering.
Yeah. Nuthin like poetry when you blow a gooses
head clean off in front of his Mrs. and babys before
kissin them all good mornin and havin breakfast.
Not even a chance since you're wearin
camoflage and pheremone scent.
> But never does this distract the steely gaze of the Beast,
>the one for whom this scene has been orchestrated.
Your dog would be perfectly happy in your
livin room CHOWEING dHOWEN on some
rice and beans.
>For since he was taken from the womb, his blood
> has run hot and his senses have been keened for
> this very instant,
Yeah? HOWE COME you gotta beat and
choke and pinch and shock them to work?
> this death spiral that culminates in an indelible
> mark which burns deep into the fabric of his mind.
Was we talkin abHOWET dog behavior
or some bird murdering sexual fantasy?
> To reach this mark, the Beast will plunge headlong
> into unfathomable depths of trial and tribulation,
Well sometimes diving into frigid tidal water
ain't the most intelligent thing to do even for
a dog. Chances are if you gave him a choice
he'd opt for the livin room floor and some rice
and beans and maybe a nylon bone.
> for he is inclined by instinct
Yeah. Should be the EZiest thing in
the Whole Wild World to train a Retriever
dog to retrieve.
> and compelled by force to do so.
INDEED. That's what your shock and pronged
spiked pinch choke collar and ear and toe pinch
and twist and training stick are for.
> And so through hell and high water the Beast
Motivated by the static like stimulation
of your medical grade static like stimulation
device and hickory stick...
> will give his all in quest of the mark,
Or he knows you'll HURT in.
> for the Man requires all that of him, and more.
The "Man" is a "lady" and a dog abuser and mental case.
>Release comes and the Beast surges forward,
Serviette?
> steaming puffs marking his progress through the cover,
The Amazing Puppy Wizard recommends
you wash in cold water so it don't coagulate.
>leaving the Man rooted in place.
Yeah. Some of them have taken a pretty good rootin.
> The Man seems frail
Indeed. It's his fragile defective ego and
inferiority complexes which compels Him
to HURT and INTIMIDATE a
selectively bred hand picked and tested
innate naturally instinctive Retriever Dog,
lesser being to do His will or He'll HURT
him.
Of curse, the ego couldn't do THAT
withHOWET permission of the weak
fearful mind fueld by the innate natural
normal inferiority complexes.
Your human nature, actually.
> and all but impotent
Oh, even much MOORE less than impotent.
HOWE abHOWET impotent and perverted.
> standing flatfooted in the wake of the charging Beast;
Perhaps you should read "Swiss Cheese Method."
> that is, unless one senses his iron will
You mean, that iron will that braves the icy cold
waters by sending His dog into under duress of
consant static like stimulation or a beatin with
a stick?
> to see the deed done
To bring back a DEAD BIRDIE you murdered
in front of HIS family?
> on his own terms
Are you a subsistance hunter like diddler?
> and recognizes the firebolt he grips in his hand
You mean your shock collar or shotgun?
> to enforce his will.
Oh. You mean both, to hurt and intimdate.
>The Beast rides the wind and forges wide.
Well perhaps you should BURN him again?
> The Man pierces the heavy air with a sharp blast:
That'll happen to the best of us. Better
check to make SHORE you didn't crap
your pants in the process. That'll happen
if you're not careful.
>Stop!
Serviette?
>The Beast shrugs off the intrusion,
Well then, time to BURN him again.
> fleeing again before the wind.
> And so the Man hardens his heart
That's a tough trick...
> and delivers the firebolt.
To enhance the bond between trainer and dog.
> The air is doubly pierced and in the ensuing
> quiet the Beast is still, gulping in great draughts
> of air, muscles tensed and poised, riveted in
>place until the Man makes his will known.
Are you talkin abHOWET the dog you just
BURNED cause you don't know HOWE to
train him or the DEAD BIRDIE you just
murdered in front of HIS Mrs. and kids?
Serviette?
>The command comes in a deceptively simple gesture,
lying frosty dahl waves her shock trainsmitter at her dogs
to threaten them when she doesn't think shocking them
will work again.
> but one that obviously speaks to deeply
> conditioned pathways in the Beasts psyche.
If that was so you wouldn't NEED to HURT
the dog when IT fails to do what you failed
to TRAIN IT to do.
>This time the Beast heeds his Masters command,
Perhaps it's got sumpthin to do with
that fifty THOWESAND volts surging
through his neck?
> bends to his will,
You live for that part. Wasn't this the
same SELECTIVELY BRED HAND
PICKED and TESTED Retriever Dog?
> and slices into the wind.
Ooops! Serviette?
>Why does he persevere?
Could be that shock collar.
> What perverse drive sends the Beast again
> and again out to do the Mans bidding?
That shock collar got sumpthin to do with it?
>What does he reap in return?
A dog that's AFRAID to make a mistake
so therefore isn't gonna be creative and
experiment to solve problems cause a
mistake means you get HURT someMOORE.
That's where FRAUDreck is GENIUS. What
he does is make EVERY THING HURT and
when the dog does what he wants, he shuts
the PAIN off.
>Alas, it is as it must be,
That's the realities of MENTAL ILLNESS, susan.
That's HOWE COME we got secure mental health
facilities. There's several near you.
> for the Beast has been forged through
> the ages for this very purpose.
You might say the Beast was SELECTIVELY
BRED and HAND PICKED and TESTED from
GENERATIONS of CHUMPION Retriever Dogs.
Dogs that INSTINCTIVELY NORMALLY NATURALLY
LIVE and DIE ONLY TO RETRIEVE, hence the NAME
"Retriever Dog."
See?
> Without the will of the Man,
You mean the lady masturbating while waitin
for her chemical straight jacket to take away
the very real risks of life withHOWET psychotropics.
> he is less than whole.
INDEED. Like that DEAD BIRDIE'S family.
> This quest is life to him,
That so? Hmm. CuriHOWES, ain't it.
> his destiny, the root of his soul.
Your human nature.
>Would that he were not so possessed,
You mean insane and armed with a shock
collar and shotgun.
> that man had not made him so!
The dog would hunt if you didn't hurt him.
The dog would hunt BETTER if you didn't HURT him.
The dog would PREFER to stay at his HOWES
on his living room rug and CHOWE DHOWEN on
rice and beans and get fat and fart at his own leisure.
> But for countless generations it has
>been thus: the fieriest Beasts, the ones
> with the most grit and determination in
> the face of overwhelming odds, the chosen
> few whose obsession has granted them
> supremacy over all others in the proving
> fields, these are the ones whose seed has
> been mingled with others of their ilk.
The Amazing Puppy Wizard thnks no, SEZ, you've
taken leave of the remaining last of your senses.
Perhaps its a SYMPTOM of The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME? Perhaps the date of this insane
ramblings of yours will substantiate that you got
a bad case of TPWS.
Where you goin with all this MALARKEY.
> The weak have been culled,
You mean MURDERED.
> talent and stamina concentrated,
Ain't they limited by your shock collar?
> and temperament fire hardened,
Can you explain that?
Oh, you mean burned in with your shock collar.
> until now what exists is this tempered-steel
> Beast, tenacious and bulletproof, a poster
> child of Dogged Determination.
Take that shock collar off his throat
and he'll never be FHOWEND.
>But never forget the parallel evolution.
You mean, mixing Lithium wiht Zoloff?
That's highly recommended.
> Was the invention of the firebolt essential,
> even inevitable?
You mean the shock collar you hurt and
intimidate or your shotgun you use to
intimidate and murder?
> It certainly seems to have been a driving force
> steering the mad course of artificial selection
> that culminated in this hard charging, obsessively
> driven Beast that likely could not else be bridled.
The dog is a freakin RETRIEVER DOG. They've
done that work for THOWESANDS of years.
> So as the genes of the Beast have long been
> sorted and combined, so too has the Man
> fashioned and tested tools to give him dominion
> over his creation, to enable him to tame this
> raging Beast.
You mean, the SELECTIVELY BRED HAND
PICKED and TESTED Retriver Dog from
C-HOWEntless generations of CHUMPion
Retriever Dogs?
>Yet what I see with my own eyes in the field
> is not just brute domination of the Beast.
Right. It's MOORE like criminal insanity.
> Repeatedly I find unequivocal evidence of true
> communication, cooperation, and teamwork.
You mean like when lying frosty dahl waves
her shock trainsmitter at the dog cause he's
HOWETA range?
> The firebolt does not lash out merely
> in revenge or retribution!
Right. You BURN your dog when you've
failed to pupperly handle and train him.
Like when you made your dog scream
pathetically on line.
You bums don't even give the DEAD BIRDIES
a fair chance to get away.
>Indeed, though the Beast often scarcely
> acknowledges the delivery,
You think the dog is bringin it back for
you to dress and cook for him?
> it is obvious that information is being conveyed
> instantaneously across the often vast expanse
> of terrain
Yeah. At the speed of light. That's important
when you're tryin to HURT your dog in a
timely manner when he fails to do what you
didn't have the intellect to teach him.
> separating Man and Beast.
Oh, that pronged spiked pinch choke
collar oughta take care of that.
> I am forced to grant that in just and
> compassionate hands, the firebolt
> is not a tool of punishment,
Right. You burn your dog when he's doin good
as a reminder that you're always as close as
your thumb is to the big red button marked BURN.
> but an effective and efficient transmitter of
> goals and aims and objectives.
You're full of hot dry crap. You shock choke
pinch twist and beat dogs cause you're an
incomptent train a dog abuser and a mental
case.
>And lo! The Beast
You mean, that SELECTIVELY BRED HAND
PICKED and TESTED for GENERATIONS
of CHUMPIONS Beast?
> does not fold or quit under the yolk of the firebolt.
You mean, your shock collar? Or
was you talkin abHOWET the DEAD
BIRDY who's head you blew off in
front of his Mrs. and babies before
breakfast, just for FUN?
> Instead, time and again, I note that the
>Beast rises to the challenge, defies limitations,
> and reaches heretofore unheard of feats
> of endurance and skill.
Yeah. Cause he loves Retrieving birdies,
kinda almost like as if you could say he
WAS SELECTIVELY BRED HAND PICKED
and TESTED for THOWESANDS OF YEARS
to instinctively retireve.
> The Beasts physical and mental toughness
> and his passion and perseverance override
> my anthropomorphic projections of what he
> should endure or how he must feel.
FEELINS? Feelings got nuthing to do
with hurting intimidating and murdering
innocent animals to compensate for your
fragile defective ego, inferiority complexes
and weak fearful mind.
> My heart tells me this cannot be just;
Well, that generHOWES heart of yours
is overridden by your pathologic weak
mind.
> my eyes show me a mutually fulfilling
> collaboration between Man and Beast.
That so? PERHAPS you oughtta get your
eyes checked, cause that dog is wearin
a shock collar to make IT do the most
normal natural instinctive reflexive behavior
the dog has been SELECTIVELY BRED for
C-HOWENTLESS generations and you can't
make IT retrieve withHOWET HURTIN HIM.
>So it is that Men are driven to create and
> nurture a Beast with over-the-top drive.
That "over the top drive" is STARK RAVIN TERROR.
> And then they match him drive for drive,
> striving always for more, ever pushing the
> envelope.
You mean, HURT the dog someMOORE.
> They harness his explosive potential with a
>potentially explosive firebolt, but apply it fairly
> and with compassion.
You mean, you gotta HURT your SELECTIVELY
BRED HAND PICKED and TESTED FOR THOHOWE-
SANDS OF YEARS, Retriever Dog, to force IT to
retrieve, cause you don't have the intellect to HOWEtwit
the cunning of the domestic puppy dog.
> And in the end they become One, a true
>team greater than the sum of its parts.
No. You inhibit your dog's ability to think
rationalize and solve problems cause he's
AFRAID of gettin HURT someMOORE cause
you're a sadist and mental case.
>But when there is a mismatch between
> the drive of Man and Beast,
You mean when you run HOWETA ideas
and informatoin and gotta HURT your dog
cause you don't have the intellect to train him?
> pity the Common Man
Serviette?
>unprepared for the intensity
Ooops! Remember, "COLD WATER."
Or it'll coagulate on you.
> a Beast he unwittingly invites into his den!
We got laws against that. CuriHOWES ain't it,
HOWE a body would go to jail and be ostracized
from society for fuckin their dog, but you can have
wet dreams of blowin birdies heads off before
breakfast in front of his family before breakfast
and hurting your SELECTIVELY BRED for THHOWE-
SANDS of generations Beast to go pick it up
cause the water's too cold for you to wad HOWET
there and get it yourself.
>However, it is often the case, and much more piteous,
You can't get no MOORE pitiful than that.
> that a man strives to achieve through force,
Cause you don't got INTELLECT.
>intimidation and fear,
You mean, your human nature.
> feats for which his beast is neither keen nor capable.
That's ABSURD.
>Take from this man his firebolt and remove
> from him any beast over which he forces
> his dominion, for he deserves neither.
Well susan, seems there's only WON honorable
thing to do. Of curse, some cultures would view
THAT as C-HOWEardly, but we know it's the only
honorable thing to do.
offers at eBay: Knives, Swords & Blades
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Be SHORE to buy the book too, you don't
wanna screw this up like you done dog trainin.
> Susan Fraser, owned and trained by
> BeBop a Lu SheBop SH, Shamma Lamma Ding Dong MH,
> Semper Choo Choo Ch'Boogie, and Gris Gris Gumbo Ya Ya
> http://mypeoplepc.com/members/chinchuba/AuH2OK9s/
IHateToSayIt...@inbox.com
From: macc...@ix.netcom.com(Thomas MacClanahan)
Date: 1997/08/03
Subject: Re: Forced /Inducement retrieve
Dogman, Ann and others have said quite a bit about the
virtues of the force fetch training. But I think they
have left out what they may have felt was obvious. The
force fetch is the most basic and primary training of
any field trained retriever.
Now when one considers that retrievers as a group of breeds
are naturally born retrieveing maniacs, the thought of training them
how to retrieve may seem a bit redundant. But the force
retrieve is far more than training the dog to retrieve.
It has more to do with teaching obedience and precision than
it does with the retrieve. AND as an important side note,
despite doing both field and competition obedience, I note
very few obedience trainers who now how to force fetch a dog
or who put as much time and care in the force fetch training
as the field trainers do.
The force fetch is the continuation of the "control" training
that the dog undertgoes at an early age. The first phase of
the control training is the leash training where the dog learns
that someone else other than it will control their actions.
The force training is generally where it learns that the voice
(or whistle) must be listened to and obeyed. In the retriever
field games, it is the retrieve that is of ultimate importance.
No retrieve no pass.
And when you look at a field trial and consider that in the
derby (the lowest starting point) the dog will have 8-12
retrieves that it must make to finish the trial, the importance
of the retrieve becomes apparent. It is one of the ultimate
humiliations that a handler can think of if their dog run to
the fall of the bird and then refuses to pick it up.
It is for this reason, as Dogman said, that at least 90 percent
of the dogs in the retreiver games have been forced. And to my
knowledge all those that do well have been forced.
The force fetch begins very slowly and methodically. Starting
with the hold. The dog learns that when commanded to hold
something, it had better hold on to whatever it was commanded
to hold until it is given a release. It does not matter if the
dog is sitting, walking, running, or taking a crap, it had
better hold onto whatever it has in its mouth.
No putting it down and then picking it up again. But hold on
and hold on tight so that it can not be knocked out of the
mouth by a tap or light blow as might happen when striking a
low limb.
>From this stage the force fetch progresses to the taking of an
object at short distance and then increasing the distance until
the dog is picking the object up off the ground. For most dogs
(at least those whom I have trained and those that I have seen
being trained by the field pros) the most pressure that the dog
will feel is applied during the hold training and at the
transition to the ground.
Once the dog has learned the hold, it will generally not
require very much pressure to transition from the hold to
the take it from the air. But during this exercise through
the use of this pressure, the dog learns that id does NOT
have an option. It MUST retrieve the item.
One of the biggest mistakes that I notice in watching obedience
trainers when they do theeir force training is that they will
use one or two items as their retrieve articles for the training. Thus
after they have progressed through open and
enter their utility training, their fetch goes south as their
dog now refuses to have anything to do with the metal articles
or the gloves.
In field training, the dog is continually tested with different
articles (if the training is done properly) including the use
of different species of birds. Why!
Because the feathering, scent, weight, taste, texture, and/or
feel of the different birds can cause a dog to refuse for a
particular species. This training if done properly is very
evident in the field dogs, such that if a dog is sent out to
make a retrieve but can not find the bird, most dogs will find
something else, sticks, beer cans, etc, to pick up and retrieve.
The force fetch is a keystone building block in the training of
a field retriever. It is the basic command upon which the vast
majority of all the other field commands are based. It is
generally taught as early in the young retriever's life as
physically possible, right after the adult teeth are in and the
gums are healed. And it is generally taught in the absence of
all other stimulation on a sterile training table from which
there is no escape.
Does this crush the dog's spirit or make them any less
exhuberent? Not that I can tell. I'd match the exhuberence
of my dogs to that of anyone elses any time. The are all
very eager to train, very joyous at the sound of my voice,
and have a tremendous drive and desire for the retrieve.
Tom
From: ROTTIEMO...@webtv.net (Irma Knoles)
Date: 1997/08/03
Subject: Re: Forced /Inducement retrieve
Thank you for you explanation it was very informative. But
could I please ask one question why if your dog refuses a
retrieve would you be humilated. Why take it so personally?
I know the field work is different than obedience or sch work
but yes I will admit to dogman I am squeamish about inflicting
pain on any dog. Could I please ask another question why do
some people feel they have to be so much in control of every
movement of a dog. I was under the expression that dog sport
was away for you and your dog to enjoy time with each other.
I am sorry I do have one more question when the dog does
refuse what do you do in a trial like dogman said you cant
take food in obedience ring you cant correct on the field
can you?
Again thanks for your informative response.
God gave us Rotties as our Guardian
Angels.
From: The ZenMaster <zzen...@earthlink.com>
Date: 1997/08/03
Subject: Re: Forced /Inducement retrieve
Thomas MacClanahan wrote:
> It is one of the ultimate humiliations that a handler
> can think of if their dog run to the fall of the bird
> and then refuses to pick it up. It is for this reason,
> as Dogman said, that at least 90 percent of the dogs in
> the retreiver games have been forced. And to my knowledge
> all those that do well have been forced.
Just as I had thought...
Thank you Tom for clueing us in on the REAL reason people force
train their dogs. They don't want to look bad in front of
their good Ol' buddies. They don't want to be called a fag or
a pussy or an environmental tree hugging AR WHACKO either.
They don't want to be laughed at.
And of course, they don't want to lose.
The usual line from hunters is some blah blah blah the dog MUST
retrieve or the hunter will starve, or blah blah blah the dog
MUST go through the razor sharp thorn brush because that's
"meat on the table."
Everything's so CRITICAL, blah blah blah. But it's refreshing
to hear the real reason from an actual hunter.
Hunters are great at placing life and death importance on
whether or not the dog gets the bird, convincing themselves
that it's all about "Survival" and/or some ancient mystical
bond between man and dog. Yeah, like that's what Field Trials
are *really* all about.
Hah! I laugh.
In fact, I've never even been to one of these Trials, but I'm
going to use my awesome ZenMasterful Insight to tell all my
fans around the Globe EXACTLY what they are all about, because
THAT'S the KIND OF GUY I AM.
These Trials aren't about the dogs and they aren't about
hunting. They are about HUMANS COMPETING against other
humans, and HUMANS not wanting to get EMBARRASSED.
And as the competition BETWEEN THE HUMANS gets tougher, the
EARS GET PINCHED HARDER, and the SHOCK LEVEL RISES and the
dogs who can handle the most PAIN and PRESSURE in training
end going to the trials and "winning."
Isn't that right Tom? C'mon now Tom, now that we're being
honest, tell me honestly if what I have said is not true.
Tell me I am wrong when I say that with increasing levels
of competition come increasing levels of compulsive and
painful training in the Field Trial Game?
If I'm wrong about that, I'd like to know. I'm rarely wrong
and I'd appreciate the courtesy of being notified when it
happens (once every decade or so).
It's good for my character.
But at least the hunters have a legitimate reason for doing
it. I mean if you are going to be shooting birds, you might
as well have a dog who will bring them back to you reliably.
But what about the "show" people? Why do they PINCH EARS?
That's easy, because they want to "put" a title on their dog.
No other reason whatsoever. That's why they EAR PINCH, to
PUT that TITLE on that DOG. They GOTTA GET THAT TITLE SO
THEY CAN BRAG ABOUT THEIR DOG WITH THE CHAMPIONSHIPS AND THE
TITLES, so they can show what a GREAT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE
BREED THEY HAVE, so they can show what REPUTABLE BREEDERS
they are.
Suzanne Clothier does a great job of explaining how MEANINGLESS
the retrieve is for the average dog owner and I, for one,
applaud her. And any of you whiners out there, these are your
choices if you don't like the force retrieve:
A. Just don't do it (force) and find another way (ala Suzanne)
B. Just don't give a f**k about formal competition (like me)
C. Embrace force (like Tom and the hunters) and pinch away
if you feel it's important and necessary.
But no use trying to convert eachother, because that ain't
really gonna happen. If your goal is to WIN a HUMAN
competition, then you are going to use the best methods to
WIN that competition, whether it's in the ring, or out in
the field. I'm sure the minute operant conditioning/positive
reinforcing methods start winning, that the people whose goal
it is to WIN are going to start using them.
That's all.
....
> But during this exercise through the use of this pressure,
> the dog learns that id does NOT have an option. It MUST
> retrieve the item.
And Fans, you have an OPTION on whether or not your dogs have
the OPTION of having their EARS PINCHED or not, so EXERCISE IT,
like I am.
.....
> The force fetch is a keystone building block in the training
> of a field retriever.
And the NOT EVEN REQUIRING A RETRIEVE, is a keystone building
block in the ZenGuerrilla Mentality, even though retrieving is
used extensively as a training game/tool. But we're talking
about producing great pets/companions here at the Corporation
for the Changing of the Muzzle, that's our thing.
Yeah, it's wacky, outrageous and somewhat scandalous, but I
think it just might be the wave of the future. This message
has been brought to you by the Corp. for the Changing of the
Muzzle, and local subscribers like you.
....
> Tom
Michael T.
Zen Guerrilla Dog
Changing The Muzzle of Dog Training
Since 1995, Singlehandedly, we might add
http://members.aol.com/Skilllz/Bitch.html
http://members.aol.com/Zzendog/Vigor.html
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
Hello cindy,
<"Cindy Tittle Moore" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:86tgq4$3t7$1...@fnord.io.com...
>> asl...@webtv.net (Melissa Wright) writes:
>> Could someone, Please, tell me exactly how the Forced
>> Fetch works?
>
> We can't, not really.
Why not? You seem to always have all the answers,
don't you CINDYMORON???
Subject: "Don't Let Your Dog Scream. Use Your Hand
To Hold His Muzzle Closed And Tell Him To Quit Moaning,"
cindymooreon.
You have the "faqs" page? Hmm? Could it be that talking about
twisting ears and pinching toes to achieve the higher aspects
of obedience and to enhance the bond between "trainer" and dog,
with AN ABUSE INVESTIGATOR got you a little green around the
gills, cindy baby???
Hmm??? Is THAT what's got YOU down, today? Huh? Feeling a
little ASHAMED, EMBARRASSED, and COWARDLY??? That's Howe I
see it, wouldn't you agree???
> If you're actually serious about checking into how to do
> this, I recommend you find someone local to you who knows
> how to do it and is willing to show you how.
WHY would ANYONE want to "learn" HOWE to HURT dogs?
You might suggest a convicted dog abuser to do the dirty deed?
Hmm?
You know, it doesn't take a very strong mind to torture
dogs by twisting their ears and toes, it DOES However,
take an EXTREMELY strong stomach... And, a SERIOUS lack
of human decency and A TOTAL ABSENCE OF CONSCIENCE and
ABSOLUTELY NO MORAL VALUES and ZERO TOLERANCE FOR ETHICS,
would also be a REQUIREMENT!
Nobody in their right mind could do such a thing...
Some of your pals here are saying EAR AND TOE PINCHING AND
TWISTING is only to be used for "teaching" the retrieve.
The psychoclown'bot says it's only to be used to rehabilitate
ONLY serious behavior problems that would otherwise result in
the dog being destroyed. Then she changes her story a couple
of days later, as you ALL have constantly done.
YOU say ear pinching and toe twisting is necessary
to train dogs to compete in any advanced training.
But then you contradict yourself and state that the most
"sophisticated work is tracking, and there IS NO WAY of
correcting him for making an error on his tracking. That's
only because you don't know Howe to train a dog WITHOUT
HURTING THEM. YOU and lyingdogdirty agree that FORCE is
necessary to achieve ANY "higher levels" of obedience or
working dogs. And lyingfrostydahly says twisting and pinching
ears and toes can be used therapeutically IN ADVANCE OF
ANTICIPATED PROBLEMS!!!
What's going on here, PEOPLE? ARE YOU
GOING TO TOLERATE THAT KIND OF CRAP???
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch Right,
Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They Have A Very
Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse Into A Heap. About
The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep The Pressure Up," sindy
"don't let the dog SCREAM" mooreon, author of HOWER
FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to MAKE
IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"Well, Jack Did Hit My Dog. Actually I'd Call It A Sharp
Tap Of The Crook To The Nose. I Know Jack Wouldn't Have
Done It If He Thought Solo Couldn't Take It. I Still Crate
Him Because Otherwise I Fear He Might Eat My Cat," melanie.
You think allowing a "FEAR AGGRESSIVE MAN SHY" dog to be
BEATEN by a strange male trainer is INTELLIGENT BEHAVIOR
for a DOG LOVER?
Here's our cindy "Don't Let Your Dog
Scream" mooreon's forced fetch page, the one she refused to
discuss and threatened to sue us for quoting from. So here it
is in full.
Barf warning.
"Cindy" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:C80%7.207860$m05.17...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> Isn't that funny?
No.
> I can microchip dogs without blinking
Yes. You only feel good when you're hurting something.
> (and check out the needle guage on those puppies sometime if
> you haven't before)
Looks can be deceiving like your pronged spiked pinch choke
collar. HOWE can we know what a dog feels? You bums want a new
definition for hurt. We got to have broken bones or blistered
skin to have hurt.
> but wuss out at the thought of getting a needle let alone
> giving it to myself.
No doubt. Sadists and cowards only enjoy inflicting pain.
> --Cindy
Below is your forced fetch page...
Hello cindymooreon,
"Cindy" <tit...@io.com> wrote in message
news:M%eY7.109765$m05.9...@bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com...
> In article
> <371a4c54.0112311430.7a184...@posting.google.com>, Melissa
> Frye <m...@surfree.com> wrote:
>
> >A retriever will carry the prey around show everyone, but
> >they don't have that hard snatch and kill usually - they
> >might mouth the cat but not that hard initial killing bite.
I wouldn't bet on that.
> THere's also the retriever that HAS to have something
> in his mouth to properly greet his owner.
That's usually a result of ANXITY from being punished for
jumping or mouthing.
> >Some spaniels will learn to grab a wounded bird take one
> >hard bite to stop it fighting and then bring it in gently.
That's nice of them. Birdies can cause a lot of damage to a
dog's eyes.
> Some retrievers do that too.
Yeah. You prefer they don't.
> >I don't buy that retrieving is a "natural" behavior -
Ever play ball with a dog?
> > I do agree that "carry" drive exists.
Yeah. That's HOWE COME cindymooreon likes to twist and
pinch ears and toes and chuck and cuff and shock dogs
to make them do that.
> > For me, the easist dog the train to retrieve is a
> > dog with very high carry drive
That's pinched choked shocked and beaten into them.
> and low possessivness,
That's pinched choked shocked and beaten outta them.
> > with a decent chase drive.
Visual oral reflex.
> > Dogs like that seem to find it very mentally satisfying
> > to play retrieving games.
Because if they don't play they get jerked and choked and
shocked and beaten till they do play. And they get hung if
they object to their training.
> Hm. I think it's a natural behavior,
Yeah, natural.
> but very subsceptible to being shaped (and in fact is more
> commonly *extinguished* than you might expect).
Yeah. Like your pal lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn's flunkie sar
dog Jive...
Hey, check it out? Here's your forced fetch page, the one you
refused to discuss and threatened to sue us for quoting from.
So here it is in full.
Thanks for the FUN:
Here's MOORE reasons why our Gang Of Thugs are EMBARRASSED by
their own works. Here's the post
cindymooreon of our faqs page at k9web threatened
to sue us for copyright infringement if we quoted it:
What is Force Fetching All About?
by Cindy Tittle Moore
Copyright 1997,1998 by the
author; all rights reserved.
THE FORCE FETCH
Alright! Now you are (finally) ready to force fetch your dog.
I repeat, you want to have an experienced person help you out,
someone who has already force fetched her own dogs whether for
obedience or field.
This step in the training entails what is
termed avoidance behavior. In a nutshell, the dog is taught
how to "turn off" a negative stimulus. He is carefully taught
that he has complete control over it.
This is a very effective way of teaching, but does
require a more astute sense of timing than some other training
methods and is very difficult for some people to do, for a
variety of reasons. However, if the dog properly knows HOLD at
this point, it's easily done with a minimum of fuss.
Return to your quiet starting place, with the dog on a collar
and leash in front of you, sitting quietly. Instead of opening
his mouth as you have been for the HOLD, put your hand through
the dog's collar (to hold him steady) and with your thumb and
forefinger pinch
the tip of his ears and say TAKE IT (or FETCH, or whatever
you want) Watch his mouth closely -- the moment he opens his
mouth, pop that dumbbell in, let go of his ear but not the
collar, and PRAISE PRAISE PRAISE. Do this three or four times
per session.
When he is opening his mouth in anticipation of the dumbbell,
the next step is to hold the dumbbell just past his lips. This
next step is for him to move his head forward that inch (or
half inch) necessary to get the dumbbell. At this point, he
has a pretty good notion that getting that darned thing into
his mouth is the way to turn off the ear pinch. Most dogs will
lean forward and get it. That's his second milestone! Praise,
praise, praise and repeat three or four times this session.
Remember, I said these sessions were no more than 5 minutes or so
each. That's still true.
Gradually extend the distance so he has to reach further to
get it. Now here is where a few subtleties come into play.
It's not enough for him to merely reach out and grab it. You
want him to commit to getting it. You want him to be intent on
getting it. If he sort of limply reaches over and gets it,
that's not what you want. If you pinch him but have to drag
him toward the dumbbell, that's not what you want either.
We're back to the visualization.
What do you want him to do? You want him to, if necessary,
bust through just about anything to get that dumbbell. So hold
on to that collar until you feel him pulling out of it to get
that. That's his committment.
You want to say TAKE IT and have him just about explode out to
get the dumbbell. As you get further along in this, you will
release him when he's made a good committment -- this will
help shape a speedy response nicely. I think you can see why
it helps to have an experienced person around when you are
doing this! It can be difficult to keep all these things in
mind when you are actually sitting there with a dog in your
hands.
About the ear pinch: You must keep the pressure up until the
instant he has the dumbbell securely in his mouth. Many people
have problems getting the pinch right, either they do not
pinch enough, or they have a very stoic dog in which case case
a collar may be needed to help make the pinch more effective.
Also some dogs are screamers, and if they find that they can
stop the pinching by screaming, they've learned the avoidance
technique just fine -- but not with the behavior you had in
mind!
Don't let your dog scream. Use your hand to hold his muzzle
closed and tell him to quit moaning. Some dogs will collapse
into a heap. Don't let them do that, that's why your hand is
in the collar. Hold them up and get them back into a sitting
position. What your dog is doing is trying to find other ways
of avoiding the ear pinch.
You need to be firm and consistent and demonstrate that
getting the dumbbell is the only means of avoidance.
Remember to keep him under control. When he gets that dumbbell
in his mouth, pull him gently around back to you and sit him
back down. You may in fact want to sit him at your side in the
heel position (whether or not he actually knows the heel
position), hold the dumbbell in front of him, command him to
take it and then pull him back to a front or finish position
as you wish. The pattern will do him good later.
The next major milestone is putting the dumbbell on the ground
for him to pick up. For many dogs this can be a big deal and
may be difficult. Set the dumbbell on the ground just in front
of them, with your hand on the dumbbell. He may not reach for
it, he may refuse -- keep up the ear pressure until he finally
picks it up. If he really doesn't seem to understand this,
then break this down into an intermediate step where you hold
the dumbbell, but about 1/2 way between the ground and his
mouth.
Once he's picked the dumbbell off the ground, that's a major
milestone and you are just about home free.
As before slowly place the dumbbell further away on the ground
in front of him. Make sure he is pulling out of your hold on
the collar before you let him pick the dumbbell up. If he
drops the dumbbell from this point on, you will get control
of him (put him in a sit with a firm hold on his collar) and
pinch him back to the dumbbell -- he can pick it up now so
there is no need for you to put it in his mouth any more. HE
is the one responsible for getting it.
When he is reliably picking up the dumbbell a few feet from
you, then you can stop using the pinch at the beginning of the
exercise.
You will instead reserve it for when he drops the dumbbell or
refuses to pick it up, etc. So for example, you might go out,
place the dumbbell 6 feet away, put the long lead on him, tell
him to take it. Let's say he hesitates and doesn't go out.
Then you pinch, force him to commit, send him to the dumbbell.
Let's say he goes and gets it, but starts playing with it.
Pull him in, and if he hasn't already dropped the dumbbell,
take it out of his mouth, put it back where it was, and pinch
him to it.
There is one last problem you need to watch for. Many dogs,
especially retrievers, will start pouncing on the dumbbell
once they are able to run out a few steps to it before picking
it up. So transition to this point with a long cotton lead
about 20-30 feet long.
With this you can spin him round the moment he scoops up the
dumbbell, teaching him that he cannot play with it. If your
dog drops the dumbbell, use the lead to pull him back to you
(do not let him try to pick it up), and pinch him back to it.
the basic rule of thumb
is that if he drops it, he will be pinched back to it
regardless.
Thoughts to Consider
Force fetching is never completely done, per se (as with any
exercise taught to a dog). You may need to do a refresher
course when it's something new to pick up, or if it's
something disgusting (like a very dead bird) to pick up. He
may also start to get lazy, you need to keep an eye on him.
You may also realize you omitted some step in training him
that shows up later so you will have to go back and fix it.
But you should also take care to make sure he doesn't forget
any of these hard-earned lessons! Make him carry things for
you. He can carry his own ball out to the park. He can carry
his own utility articles to the ring. He can help you carry a
light bag of groceries into the house. He can help you carry
firewood. They will just love this, and it's a good way to
keep the talents honed. Use it!
===================
AnimalBehaviorForensicSc...@hushmail.com
drgutsyd...@yahoo.com wrote:
> Jerry Howe has a method that teaches non violent
> methods to train dogs.
INDEEDY. And HE teaches them FOR FREE all over
the WHOWEL WILD WORLD from settin right here,
stark ravin nekkid.
> If a person goes to one of Jerry Howe's enormous
> amountm of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's sites the
> way he talks to people and if you speak with him
> on the phone he power trips,
Tsk, tsk, tsk, Dr. Gutsy Do Right Dog. Seems
you're feelin a mite SENSITIVE. Perhaps you're
just havin a hard time acception the FACTS, or
maybe it's just your HUMAN NATURE, Dr. GUTSY.
> tells you what to think
NO. That's a falshood, Dr. Gutsy. The Amazing
Puppy Wizard TOLD YOU HE NEVER TELLS FOLKS WHAT
to THINK, Dr. You're welcome to THINK ANY THING
YOU PREFER. The Amazing Puppy Wizard teaches you
HOWE TO THINK, not WHAT to think.
Make up your own mind after you've LEARNED THE FACTS.
> and feel
Sometimes FEELINS are the CAUSE of WHAT you think.
> and yells while he does it.
Sometimes when people CAN'T THINK because of HOWE
they FEEL about their SENSITIVITES, yellin is the
only way to SHOCK them into LISTENING or at least
FEELIN HOWE they REALLY FEEL, Dr.
> Puts down people who are ill,
NO. The Amazing Puppy Wizard does NOT "put down
people who are ILL," HE TEACHES THEM HOWE NOT TO
CONTINUE BEIN ILL by TAKING DOWN THEIR DEFENSES
and CHANGING HOWE they FEEL about themselves, Dr.
> calls people with mind disorders "mental cases".
NO. MENTAL CASES are folks who PREFER to FEEL like
HOWE they always have, Dr. The Amazing Puppy Wizard
wants you to IDENTIFY EXXXPOSE and CHANGE YOUR FEELINS
so you can TAKE THE CURE, Dr.
> claims that ALL illnesses are from stress
No. There's other reasons as well. HOWEver, 90% of
ALL DIS-EASE is CAUSED BY STRESS, aka The Puppy
Wizard's SYNDROME, Dr.
> and that without him the world will not be saved.
BET YOUR LIFE ON IT, Dr.
> All the while yelling and not giving a person a
> chance to speak even to ask for him to stop yelling .
BWEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAAAA!!!
Seems you're havin a PSYCHOTIC REACTION to THE TRUTH, Dr.
> He just keeps yelling and saying the same
> stuff he say's on his web site
You DON'T WANT to TAKE THE CURE, Dr. You PREFER
the SAFETY of your DIS-EASES.
> most of the content has nothing to do with dogs.
INDEED, Dr. GUTSY Do Right Dog.
THIS AIN'T ABOUT DOGS NO MORE. THIS is
about HOWER HUMAN NATURE, Dr. GUTSY. We
AIN'T been talkin about DOG BEHAVIOR for
a couple years, Dr. Gutsy!
WELCOME to The Amazing Puppy Wizard's HUMAN
BEHAVIOR RESEARCH LABORATORY.
> His topic is "The mental cases, the nazis, the dog
> abusers, they are all a bunch of thugs."
INDEEDY. Take a look in HOWER archives! AND
THEN TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN LOVING KINDLY
WORDS. You're havin a PSYCHOTIC REACTION,
JUST LIKE HOWE the Nazis do WHEN THEY FIRST
RECOGNIZE THEIR OWN HUMAN NATURE, Dr. Gutsy.
> When challenged on this violent language
WHAT VIOLENT LANGUAGE, Dr. GUTSY? The Amazing
Puppy Wizard does not indulge in VIOLENCE.
> he will say that it is you that is a nazi
> with the black boots.
Because you want to defend your alleged
right to continue to be MENTALLY ILL, Dr.
And your post PROVES IT, Dr. Gutsy. You're
havin a PSYCHOTIC REACTION. THAT'S PREDICTABLE.
THAT'S NORMAL, Dr. Gutsy!
Dr., HEEL THYSELF!
> Is he really interested in dogs or is he into
> confrontational cyber space sparring?
You CANNOT take issue with ANY of The Amazing
Puppy Wizard's TEACHINGS, Dr., or you WOULD.
INSTEAD you've launched personal ATTACKS because
YOUR SENSITIVE FEELINS are HURT, Dr.
Sometims the HEELIN PROCESS REQUIRES A LITTLE
PAIN, Dr. If you ain't ready for HEELIN, then
DON'T ASK TO TAKE THE CURE!
> WHEN YOU TALK THE TALK YOU NEED TO WALK THE WALK.
INDEED?
> Kind words and consideration for the rights of people
Hey, you GOT YOUR RIGHT to remain SICK!
> does not cost anything.
Well Dr. GUTSY, The Amazing Puppy Wizard DISAGREES.
The PRICE is HIGH, and you can't get there by yourself
if you're SICK and DEFENDING your alleged RIGHT to
CONTINUE BEIN SICK, Dr.
> I submit that Jerry Howe treat people
> like he say's to treat dogs.
Sorry, Dr. GUTSY. Being NICE to mentally ill
Nazi Sadists WILL NOT CURE THEM, Dr. GUTSY,
IT PERPETUATES THEM.
> With non-violence.
You mean, the VIOLENCE of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's HEELING WORDS, Dr. GUTSY? What a
hypocrite!
> Many vices have some form of pleasure in them
INDEED. I even enjoy the PAIN of HEELING.
> such as chocolate and ice cream eaten in too large
> of a quantity. What pleasure is there in name calling
> and attacking people with disabilities?
You mean people who WANT TO REMAIN SICK, Dr. GUTSY.
> He chain smokes cigars
I even ENJOY the PAIN in my lungs, havin
had Emphysema 25 years pryor!
> and is on the computer all day and night as
> he watches T.V. and talks on the phone.
THIS IS WHERE AND HOWE I WORK, Dr. Gutsy.
> He has four dogs and how are their needs being met?
Through GENTLE TENDER LOVING CARE and UNCONDITIONAL
LOVE TRUST and RESPECT, Dr. Gutsy, just as TAUGHT
in your own FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's
100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFSUL FREE
WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual.
HERE, READ IT AGAIN:
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > http://www.tinyurl.com/7bl5u < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } > < { ~ :{@}>
<{#}: ~ } >8< { ~ :{@}>
http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
> He also believes dogs do not need walks.
HOWE do you know WHAT The Amazing Puppy Wizard BELIEVES?
We AIN'T talkin about "BELIEFS," doctor, we're talkin
about FACTS. Dogs DO NOT NEED EXXXCESSIVE EXXXORCISE to
stop them from being DESTRUCTIVE and HYPERACTIVE. IN FACT,
that's what allows the PROGRESSION of The Puppy Wizard's
SYNDROME, when we lock our dogs in boxes and EXXXCESSIVELY
EXXXORCISE their HYPERACTIVE BEHAVIORS HOWETA THEM.
> He does not say this in the manual.
RIGHT. I SAY THAT ON MY FORUMS!
You CANNOT EXXXCESSIVELY EXXXORCISE a dog to
keep IT from becoming HYPERACTIVE as professor
SCRUFF SHAKE dermer and Master Of Deception
blankman advise.
> He omits many things in the manual,
CITES PLEASE?
> like it is supposedly okay to have sex with animals.
BWEEEEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHAHHAAAAA!!!
You're havin the PREDICTABLE PSYCHOTIC REACTION
the NAZI SADISTS have, Dr. GUTSY. The DISCUSSION
WAS: "IN SOME JURISTICTIONS / STATES SEX WITH
ANIMALS IS LEGAL." Furthermore, The Amazing Puppy
Wizard STATED that it's YOUR PREFERNECE, that HE
DOES NOT DICTATE MORALS VALUES ETHICS or PRINCIPLES!
HOWE CAN you think that it's O.K. to JERK CHOKE
SHOCK BRIBE CRATE INTIMIDATE animals and THAT IS
NOT A CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR but to MAKE LOVE THEM is
ILLEGAL IMMORAL and CRUEL???
THAT'S INSANE! (AlthHOWE NOT RECOMMENDED).
REMEMBER Dr. GUTSY, The Amazing Puppy Wizard
doesn't teach you WHAT TO THINK, HE TEACHES
YOU HOWE TO THINK.
You've taken a couple points OUT OF CONTEXT
and USED them to make folks BELIEVE that The
Amazing Puppy Wizard advises and practices
behaviors which HE PERSONALLY BELIEVES are
WRONG. That YOU had a PSYCHOTIC REACTION to
the TRUTH does NOT MEAN that The Amazing Puppy
Wizard "SCREAMS" at folks lookin for ADVICE
on training their dogs, Dr. You got a PROBLEM
for the INFORMATION you got and NHOWE you want
to CRUCIFY THE MESSENGER, as the rest of these
miserable lying dog abusing punk thug coward
MENTAL CASES have been trying for six years
to DEFEND their alleged RIGHT to HURT INTIMIDATE
and MURDER innocent defenseless dumb critters.
YOUR CONSCIENCE IS BOTHERING YOU.
> Like it is okay with him if dogs die while he
> wages a war with words all over the net,
INDEED. Those are COLLATERAL DAMAGES, Dr. Gutsy.
> instead of talking about dog behavior.
Seems it's YOU who is FAILING to TALK DOGS.
Seems it is YOU who is CONDEMING The Amazing
Puppy Wizard for "NOT BEING KIND" and NOT
ACCEPTING of YOUR OWN MENTAL ILLNESS!
YOU CAUSE YOUR MENTAL ILLNESSES JUST AS YOU
CAUSE YOUR DOG'S TEMPERAMENT and BEHAVIOR
PROBLEMS and 90% of their DIS-EASES.
> People ask him questions because they don't
> understand something in his book and his
> response is to put them down for not doing
> his methods.
No. The INFORMATION is in the manual, Dr. The
Amazing Puppy Wizard AIN'T INTERESTED in the
"scientific" HOWE'S and HOW COMES of behavior.
THE METHOD IS NOT TAUGHT IN SCHOOL, Dr. Gutsy.
> does not answer their questions
BWEEEEEEEEAAHAHAHAHHAHHAAAA!!!
YOU GOT THE ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS, Dr.
THAT'S HOWE COME you're launching this viciHOWES
attack on the ONLY person who GOT THE CURE for
YOUR MENTAL and PHYSICAL ILLNESSES.
> orders them to read the book
The Amazing Puppy Wizard GAVE YOU HIS FREE MANUAL
to STUDY and FOLLOW PRECISELY. The Amazing Puppy
Wizard DOES NOT CARE to EXXXPLORE the PHILOSOPHY
HE TEACHES, HE HAS NO DESIRE TO WASTE TIME placatin
the SENSITIVE FEELINS of MENTAL PATIENTS who want
to know HOWE COME should they NOT CHOKE SHOCK BRIBE
CRATE and INTIMIDATE DOGS or CHILDREN, Dr.
JUST FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS AND REAP YOUR REWARD.
Or do otherWIZE and GET YOUR JUST DESSERTS.
The CHOICE IS YOURS.
> and calls them names.
Tsk, tsk, tsk. The Amazing Puppy Wizard doesn't
consider callin a spade a spade instead of a
collapsable entrenching tool CALLIN PEOPLE NAMES.
If MENTALLY ILL doesn't FIT THE BILL, then let's
DISCUSS the NATURE of your DIS-EASES, Dr. GUTSY.
> Strange behavior for a man who proclaims to be
> the Guru of dogs,
Well, your RESPONSE is PREDICTABLE behavior for
a DOG ABUSER and MENTAL CASE who WANTS to CONTINUE
BEING A DOG ABUSING MENTAL CASE, Dr. GUTSY.
> people
A DOG Is A Dog;
As A KAT Is A KAT;
As A BIRDY Is A BIRDY;
As A CHILD IS A CHILD;
As A SP-HOWES Is a SP-HOWES;
AS A MASS MURDERER IS A MASS MURDERER.
ALL Behavior Problems Are CAUSED BY MISHANDLING
ALL Critters Only Respond In
PREDICTABLE INNATE NORMAL NATURAL
INSTINCTIVE REFLEXIVE Ways;
To Situations And Circumstances Of Their Environment
Which We Create For Them.
Damn The Descartean War of "Nature Vs Nurture."
We Teach By HOWER Words And Actions
And GET BACK What We TAUGHT.
In The Problem Animal Behavior BUSINESS
FAILURE MEANS DEATH.
SAME SAME SAME SAME,
For The Problem Child Behavior BUSINESS.
> and he is going to save the planet with his box!!!
INDEED! That's the FIRST attack the DOG ABUSERS launch!
Because YOU CAN'T TAKE ISSUE WITH ANY THING I'VE SAID,
you ATTACK MY MACHINE becuse IT'S SO REMARKABLE IT'S
UNBELIEVEABLE!
What a COWARDLY THING TO DO, Dr. Gutsy!
The Amazing Puppy Wizard's Doggy Do Right (And Kitty Will
And A Rooster Did And A Cockatoo And A Horse And A Cow did
Too) Machine USES THE SAME TECHNIQUES AS TAUGHT in your own
FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY
NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSSFUl FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual, Dr. Gutsy.
> Peace begins within.
INDEEDY. But YOU DON'T WANT PEACE. You WANT to
be SICK, MENTALLY ILL, to DEFEND YOUR SENSITIVE
FEELINS because THAT IS your HUMAN NATURE.
> Peace is free. Peace is in kind words, thoughts and deeds.
Well then Dr., HEEL THYSELF!:
"It is by muteness that a dog becomes
so utterly beyond value."
Like a confessor Priest?
"With him,
words play no torturing tricks.., "
--John Galsworthy.
Don't bet your dog won't tell on you...
Their behaviors reflect
HOWER words, actions and training quirks.
Jerry HOWE, The Puppy Wizard. <{} ; ~ ) >
Subject: Saved By The Puppy Faerie <{) ; ~ ) >
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com)
Subject: House training and such...
Date: 2003-10-08 16:18:56 PST
I've been having a problem with my dog, Axel,
relieving himself in the house while I'm away
from home.
I've used TPW method's, and yesterday I was out
for 12 hours, and Axel didn't have one single "accident".
Today, I had hoped that the results would be just as
good - and they were (I was out for 11 hours).
The problem began when, as a puppy, Axel would
relieve himself in the house and I would point at the
mess and tell him "NO" or "Bad Dog".
That made him afraid to relieve himself in the house
or infront of me.
After I got TPW's training manual, I corrected my
mishandling of these instances.
When I came home to an "accident", I would simply
drop a can near the area and ask Axel "What's that?"
Then I would clean it up - with out showing him I was
the least bit upset about the mess, and when he looked
at the spot I would tell him "Good boy, you're a good dog".
This has been an ongoing problem, and thanks to the
Puppy Wizard, we've finally got it taken care of...
Also, Axel LOVES the cat's litter box...He enjoys the
"snacks" he can find in there...I followed TPW's methods
by alternating sounds and praising him while or before
he sticks his nose in it, and today, he's been going into
the room with the cat box and barking. That's because
he's thinking about getting into the box, but he knows he
shouldn't.
Thank you, Jerry, for all you help. You've been a
blessing to all of us.
AIMEE
===================
From: AIMEE (countrygirl0...@yahoo.com):
I own a black an tan coonhound. We got him
as a puppy, and due to constant mishandling
(pulling on his lead, negative corrections, and
the occasional use of a bark collar) I ended
up with a very anxious dog.
I couldn't leave him home alone, I couldn't
crate him, I couldn't even take my dog for
walks because he feared EVERYTHING.
I was going to have to get rid of him if things
didn't turn around.
My husband and I searched the internet for
answers - AND WE FOUND THE PUPPY WIZARD.
For all of you disbeliveers out there HIS METHODS WORK!
I've followed his manual, and we now have a
dog that can be left home alone, that heels
on command, that can go outside and NOT
be afraid of everything he sees.
Not only have his methods helped our dog, but
our marriage has gotten better. We had fallen
into a rut - constant bickering and tension, we
never laughed or had FUN together - but now,
with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
WIZARDS dog training, our communications
channels have opened, and we now work
together instead of against one another.
For all the "Literalists" out there, NO WE DID
NOT TEACH EACH OTHER TO SIT, STAY,
OR HEEL.
We simply eliminated the nagging and the
acting out to get NEGATIVE attention from
one another since we weren't getting
the POSITIVE attention we wanted.
So, it's been proven - THE PUPPY WIZARDS
METHODS WORK.
It's up to you to accept them. Yes, there's alot
of blame that we have to accept, but once we
realize that we've caused these problems to
arise, we can strive to make things better.
AIMEE
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Date: Sun, 04 Jan 2004 22:29:04 GMT
Subject: Re: House training and such...
HOWEDY culprit,
"culprit" <culp...@flashmail.com> wrote in message
news:bm30da$hmbrc$1...@ID-58739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "ke.ver" <Koen.Verhe...@pandora.be> wrote in message
> news:kp7hb.67308$4m5.3...@phobos.telenet-ops.be...
> > aimee , i don't quite understand : when the dog
> > pees or poops you tell the dog first what's that
> > and then you tell him good boy , you're a good dog ;
> > what kind of training manual is TPW ?
> > i don't see how this can help the dog ( and you )
> i think "aimee" is an alias for our resident troll,
> who tries to push his "training method" on people.
> i wouldn't worry too much about her.
> -kelly
HOWEDY kelly,
"culprit" <culpri...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:bl22ho$76rdi$1...@ID-58739.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "AIMEE" <countrygirl0...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1afc3ce9.03092...@posting.google.com...
> > We had fallen into a rut - constant bickering and
> > tension, we never laughed or had FUN together -
> > but now, with the same mindset used in THE PUPPY
> > WIZARDS dog training, our communications channels
> > have opened, and we now work together instead of
> > against one another.
>
> TPW saved your marriage?
INDEEDY.
> kick ass!
The Puppy Wizard doesn't approve of violence.
> that's a new one, innit?
NOT AT ALL, kelly.
> we better add that to the list of magical things the wiz can do!
INDEEDY.
> train all dogs perfectly, in minutes.
GUARANTEED.
> prevent seizures.
DONE THAT.
> make children behave better.
GUARANTEED.
> save bad marriages.
DONE THAT.
> am i missing anything?
INDEEDY. You're missing HUMAN DECENCY,
MORALS, ETHICS, PRINCIPLES, and ALL REASON.
> -kelly
And that ain't all The Puppy Wizard SPECIALIZES in, kelly.
> not really in need of saving, thanks.
NO PROBLEMO! You're inscribed in the book
of eternal death. You're a liar and a dog abuser
and a MENTAL CASE.
lyingdogDUMMY wrote:
>Well, the newest shill on the scene must be Michael,
>because Jerry couldn't possibly spell "literalists."
Your reply doesn't even pertain to the subject...
Why don't we discuss why you feel you need hurt
animals to "train" them?
I've actually met TPW. I called him a few times with
questions about the training method, and he realized
that there were some underlying problems. Axel (my dog)
had a special situation. So, TPW met with us in our home.
The first thing he noticed was that Axel's collar was too tight.
We loosened it, and immediately Axel calmed down quite a bit.
We went outside and worked on the HOT AND COLD
HANDLING EXERCISE and THE FAMILY PACK
LEADERSHIP EXERCIZE. That seemed to get us
headed in the right direction, but we were still having
a few problems with Axel's anxiety.
The main reason TPW visited our home - I found this
our recently during one of our conversations- was to
see how my husband and I interacted with one another.
I had been following the methods precisely, but Axel
was still having difficulty.
TPW's assumptions were correct - we were causing
alot of Axel's anxiety with our arguments and tension.
TPW told me that Axel has been one of his most difficult
dogs to work with.
Axel had his anxieties from mishandling and
from my husband and myself.
We had a few problems because I was unwilling to
accept the fact that I needed to be "nice" eventhough
I wasn't being treated "nicely", but once I realized that
was the only way I could really get Axel past his anxiety,
I worked on being a loving wife (eventhough I didn't really
want to be).
AND GUESS WHAT? My husband saw the difference,
and he followed suit. Now, we have a stress free dog,
and a good marriage.
Can you tell me how forcing someone (dog, person, cat)
to do what YOU want them to do, is going to improve a
situation? I tried that with my husband and with my dog,
and it didn't work with either of them.
Your methods have an 85% success rate - and my
dog was one of the 15% that doesn't accept your methods.
TPW has 100% success rate. You do the math.
If TPW hadn't helped us, Axel wouldn't be where he is today.
============================
Subject: Ask The Puppy Wizard
HOWEDY Aimee,
> my husband believes that this product is like ecstasy.
Well, for ME it IS... it's a dream come true. I got to ask
the Mrs. to keep pinchin me to believe it myself. My
DDR works like an AUTOMAGICK bio feeback trainer.
It uses a gentle sound, a beat, to entrain the brain,
like as if you was humming your favorite song. When
the critter is faced with a stressor, he AUTOMAGICKALLY
reflexes to that comfortable state of mind, to "hide"
from his fears. With repetition, the fears are "collapsed"
or over ridden, by the pleasant "tune."
There's a child psychologist currently testin DDR on
his hyperactive and learning disabled patients.
> Will this product in any way harm my dog?
Absolutely not. I've tested it on HUNDREDS of dogs
and kats whom I've known well and closely observed
over many years before offering my DDR for sale. It's
giving me better reports from users than I'd ever
imagined possible. It even stops cows from "bellowing."
> He has a severe anxiety disorder and cannot be left
> alone in our apartment -whether in his crate or left
> to roam free.
O.K., that's the problem! The crate in itself causes fear in
a twofold manner. Many dogs fear the crate because they
can't go to relieve themselves or have water, or become
anxious because it's a safe haven, a refuge he can run to
in order to hide from THINGS that scare him, like loud
noises, guests, whatever. Every minute he spends hiding
in there, increases his fears about what's goin on.
With repetition, just entering the crate even willingly,
restimulates ALL his fears, even when he goes in of
his on volition for no particular reason.
> We have tried just about everything...
Well, you just got LUCKY. I've got a comprehensive manual
available for free on my website. STUDY IT. Do the exercises,
and ask me for help if you've got questions or have difficulty.
Follow the method EXACTLY, don't vary, and ask me for help
FAST, if you don't get 100% success, nearly instantly.
There's absolutely NO reason your dog should have to
suffer separation anxiety for more than two days.
> This is our last resort.
First thing you've got to do is teach him your HOWES is his
HOWES, and that no matter what, you'll never be cross with
him.
That'll give him the confidence to stay alone withHOWET
supervision. Separation anxiety has nothing to do with
your absences, it's got to do with not having his controller
in charge of his behavior.
> Until we find some way to train him,
You just did. My tiny manual has ALL the information you need
to bring your dog to any level of proficiency in any field you
desire.
> he is living with my parents.
Good. Take a couple of days to study and practice the techniques
withHOWET your pup, then go pick him up and DO the exercises
in a couple of locations on your way back to your HOWES.
> Will this product help me get my Axel back?
The method and the machine both rely on constant praise.
The machine does a much more thorough job of convincing
the dog everything is O.K. It'll usually calm any anxious
outbursts in maybe as little as five seconds, for a dog that's
been conditioned to it for a few days. After a few months of
use, you'll not need to use it except on occasion.
I'd give you more info about the machine, but you got
enough reading ahead of you in my manual. Just rest
assured that if you desire the very best for you dog my
DDR machine will do just that. It's money back satisfaction
guaranteed forever cause there ain't nuthin better than it
in the Whole Wild World. You and your pets will LOVE it!
But start the manual first, cause that's gonna break the
cause of his anxiety.
Yours, Jerry.
"Katra" <K...@centurytel.net wrote in message
news:
3EEEAC89.3D837__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$z...@centurytel.net...
Ok, so I care for an unusually large number of cats...
And when you have this many, there are behavior
problems. Not due to crowding, but some cats are
territorial by nature.
I checked out Jerry's site and found the science behind
the BIOSOUND box to be sound. (no pun intended <G)
I am familiar with the concept of using sound therapy
from my studies on deep meditation and had experimented
with it already.
So, I bought one.
Results?
The cats now sleep thru the night instead
of spatting at 3 a.m.
Taz, my brain damaged kitty, no longer wanders up the
hall in the middle of the night, yowling when he gets "lost".
(He's not the brightest bannana in the bunch. ;-) )
He's been sleeping quietly at my feet now for the past 3
nights I left the box running. He suffered a severe head
injury as a kitten when he got hit by a car. That is how I
got him. I picked him up out of the middle of the highway. :-(
Thank the gods for good vets...
Feeding frenzy time, when I dole out the canned food,
used to be fraught with the more dominant kitties hissing
at the undercats to get the best place at mom's feet. They
always settled down once the food dishes were down, but
now there has been NO fighting!
They have been more obedient about staying off the
sink and the dining room table, and, whomever it was
that kept pooping in FRONT of the litter box on the floor
has quit!
Yay! I never did catch who was doing it.
Overall, much calmer behavior from the cats.
As for the dogs, the jury is still out on them. The
shelties seem unaffected but it's impossible to
tell with them as they were already calm, sedate,
obedient and well trained dogs.
With hyper Jewely, well, tonight she did not try to jump
on me when I let her out of the bedroom to go potty, and
she calmly sat at the door waiting to be let out instead of
getting all anxious. I have not really tried serious training
with her indoors near the box yet, except once, but not for
long enough to see if it'd really work.
Since some of the usual training methods are not working
with her on the jumping problem, I plan to give Jerry's method
a fair shake. The one time I tried it, yeah, she piddled, but I
think that's because I did not do it right. I spoke with Jerry
further by e-mail and I was not supposed to jump straight in
to working on a specific behavior problem. I need to to the
pre-training excercizes first!
I'll post later on the results when I have more time
to really concentrate on working with her near the box.
In the meantime, the box DOES seem to calm the
animals and make it easier to work with them. The
results alone on the cats have made it worth every
penny. And if it can increase Jewely's attention span........ ;-)
Leah might want to try one on Maddie? <shrugs
He may be hostile on the list, but he IS honest and
honors his money back guarantees, so you won't be
out anything if you just decide to try it like I did!
Katra
=============================
From: Ama...@DCFWatch.com (Ama...@dcfwatch.com)
Subject: Can we get specific about doggydoright without rancor?
Date: 2003-01-13 08:00:29 PST
"Donna" <raindancer...@SPAMBLOCKyahoo.com> wrote in message
<news:MuwU9.10110$R16....@news-binary.blueyonder.co.uk>...
> Just a question... Got Jerry on kill-file too,
> but what is this "doggiedoright" thing???
> Donna
It's a smallish box with ac adapter. It emits a "song". A sound
unheard by the tympanic membrane. It regulates brain waves
and calms the subject down. I got mine yesterday.
I have two pitties, my neighbor on one side has an infant pitty
and the other neighbor on my left has a pitty mix, greyhound
and pig. Her dogs bark CONSTANTLY!
All hours of the night.. she lets em out for last call around 1am.
We put ours on our kicthen window sill so the animals outside
and inside can hear it. Anyway.. for the first time my dogs slept
peacefully.
I also did some training with jerry and hise wife yesterday,
between that and the machine my dogs ignored the dogs barking.
A mere quiet growl from my oldest dog, a good girl good job! and
she went back to sleep.. an abolsolute first in this house.
My nieghbors dogs continued barking.. the machine was
not set to play.. so i reset it.. and they shut right up.
The whole nieghborhood was quiet for the first time.
Neighbors dogs are still behaving today.
I will be loaning it to my father in two weeks, once my dogs
remember the "song" and can learn to replay it to themselves
to calm themselves down, for his cockatiel who is home alone
alot.. and very bitchy.
I will also be buying one for my mom for her feuding kitty cats.
And finally I will be buying one for my friend who has two dogs
and a child with major seizure problems. I think this device will
help her daughters seizures since it controls and regulates brain
waves.
Since i'm not rich.. and these machines are $135 with shipping ...
when i say I am planning on buying three of them for friends.. you
know it works. I could always let them borrow it for free.. but
this machine is so kickass.. they need their own so their
neighbors dogs can be happy too.
================
And here's my machine curing seizures:
Jerry says:
howe's the baby's seizures?
parentadlitem says:
better
Jerry says:
got any idea how much better?
parentadlitem says:
not really
parentadlitem says:
she doesn't do em here that i see
Jerry says:
amazing
Jerry says:
when's the last time she seized with you?
parentadlitem says:
weeks ago?
Jerry says:
but before the machine it was daily?
parentadlitem says:
every minute!
Jerry says:
does her mom use it at her howes?
parentadlitem says:
yup
parentadlitem says:
i yelled at her about it
Jerry says:
ask her when's the last time she saw a seizure for me
parentadlitem says:
k . she's sleepin now, ill talk to her tonight, she's comin over
Jerry says:
yeah... that's pretty good stuff
parentadlitem says:
yup
parentadlitem says:
i love mine
parentadlitem says:
no barkin the nieghborhood at all anymore
parentadlitem says:
ever
Jerry says:
right
parentadlitem says:
once in a blue moon some distant dog will bark
parentadlitem says:
but all the neighbors dogs are quiet
Jerry says:
when you hear that distant dog throw the machin on
parentadlitem says:
we do
parentadlitem says:
it's really rare though
=================
From: Mike (m.bidd...@ns.sympatico.ca)
Subject: Re: Info. on the puppy wizard?
Date: 2004-07-18 14:27:02 PST
> > Oh, and did I mention his methods work, ya nuff
> > said. Mike
> Ok Mike which part worked for you?
It helped clear problems from my dogs in the
field using the can penny distraction technique.
Works like a charm.
My dogs get distracted easy from their jobs ie,
retrieving or training to find lost people, oh did
I mention that I am a Search and Rescue Team
Leader.
Sorry that slipped my mind.
I have read volumes of training books and don't
know where people get that Jerry copied others
work as I have NEVER come across his methods
before. I would like to see proof.
Just like Jerry outlined I eliminated problems one
at at time as they arose. I used to try and train to
the way I wanted them but this is backward, you
train out the problems leaving what you want left over.
Funny part is the second dog who had the same
problems as the other didn't need correcting for
some of his habits after I cleared it from the first
dog.
Seemed he learned through osmosis.
Nice side benefit there.
It nearly came to giving them up to a 3rd party
trainer as they were not performing well. The
VAST majority of working dog trainers are
agressive in their actions with the dogs.
I tried it and it didn't work and guess what I
was at my "Whits End" then someone I new
turned me onto Jerry and the rest is history.
I referred friends and families to Jerry's manual
and all have had great results. Starting puppies
out on the distraction technique is especially
good because they never develop the habit.
I had my sisters dog healing, sitting and down
stay reliably at 8-9 weeks. The first night home
following Jerrys advice we ditched the crate and
put the pup on the floor beside the bed and after
2 whimpers NOT A SOUND OUT OF THAT DOG
FOR 6 HRS! first night, that has never happened
in all my days.
Sorry, the man understands dogs its that simple.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" <Ama...@dcfwatch.com wrote:
I used reward based training with limited results. When my
dog was hungry she obeyed and when she wasn't.. well she did
whatever she wanted. Her behaviours steadily increased to
overly protective tendencies, guarding etc.
She had previously been abused so I knew not to even
attempt any physical punishment. Eventually we had
a hard time walking if another dog was around. She
wouldn't try to escpae my grip, but she would become
very defensive and eventually i would have to sit down
with her and calm her down.
Fast forward to us bringing home a new puppy. She
wouldn't allow him near us. If he tried moving toward
us she bit him. Since he was 5 weeks old I needed an
expert to help me solve this problem and quickly.
Within 5 minutes of an email, Jerry Howe phone me at
home at 10pm on a sunday night. Sunday before christmas
to be exact. I followed his methods.. no punishment, no
scolding, no treats.. just praise and distraction.
Within two days my 20 mo female's milk came in and
she was nursing this pup every two hours or so for about
a half hour.. despite her raw nipples that were cracked and
bleeding.. she would become upset if i took him off of her..
preferring to nurse him.
Despite hearing many bad things about him, personally, and his
methods this dog continues making great strides. for instance
she had nipped my friends daughter for going after my child's
food.. while my child screamed and this lil girl continued
Kelly (my pit/staffy) took it upon herself to nip the child to
get her to leave my child alone.
Highly unacceptable, I phoned Jerry.
We followed his advice/training and today I found
my dog on the floor.. cornered.. being poked in the
eyes and hurt by this lil girl with her only response
being to show her teeth and growl quietly.
Whereas this is most unacceptable in my eyes.. my dog who
would have nipped this child restrained herself.. and when
praised and distracted showed remorse.. knowing she did
improperly.
Then later when this lil girl was bugging her again did not come
close to her. Given that merely a week ago my dog snarled at
this lil girl while she approached the nursing pup, this is
marked improvement.
She now eats in the same area as the same pup she
was biting two weeks ago.. and also lets him eat treats
even when she finishes hers. Previously our nights
were filled with endless barking due to our dog being outside
barking in response to our neighbors dogs.. now a Good girl!
Good dog sends her right into the house to lay down and
ignore them.
Why is this training so advanced and easier than the
reward/clicker methods? Why is jerry's methods giving me
incredible results with minimal effort and no treats/bribes?
Why are you advocating treat training when in reality you are
relying on the dog's desire for a small kibble being stronger
than its desire to run.. and sad to say.. you cannot treat
train when it comes to overly protective tendencies.
I used these methods to the t.. and i did receive results...
she does well at sit, stay, down,speak and shake.. she
knows off and come and git... but it simply came down
to their hunger pains being stronger than their wishes...
and you simply cannot train a dog to not be protective by
food. A good dog will ignore food and protect its pack.
As they should or all a burglar would need is some beggin'
strips.
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" <Ama...@dcfwatch.com
wrote in message news:
91381045.0301221814.7aa3a...@posting.google.com...
news:
91381045.0301211225.6d5f6...__END_MASK_i?a63jfAD$__BEGIN_MASK_n#9g02mG7!__...@posting.google.com...
> This makes me wonder. If the dog taught himself to get
> the kid off of it by biting, why can't you teach it another
> method.
When my dog nipped to protect my kids, i taught
her with distraction and praise.
> What did you teach her to do instead of nipping?
First we used distraction and praise to teach her
biting is not ok. 2 weeks ago we had to separate
her from the puppy in order to feed them.
She would run over, bite him then take his food.
If he licked the carpet where juice was spilled he
got bitten. just examples.
Then during meals, when she moved toward him
we (me, my husband, jerry and his wife) used sound
distraction and praise.
We trained her to stay away from him.
Then we let them get close, when she looked like
she was thinking of biting (snap) good girl! good
dog... and she would let him close.
since he advanced to eating her food she began
laying down and allowing him to take over. so we
taught her to find his food and eat his.
Just doing this has taught her to share. If he's too
roudy and the kids aren't inviting.. she will find her
rope and give it to him. if he takes her kong, she
does and finds his and either gets him to take his
own kong or simply lets him have his.
we did this by feeding her as much as she wanted,
giving her plenty of toys. we taught her there is always
more.. we broke that instinct of self preservation.
now they share from the same bowl. not even a growl.
then when she growled because my friends kid went near her
while she was nursing, we put her on lead just long enough to
come 1 foot from the kid. just in case. we put the kid on the
floor in her mum's lap with the puppy and used distraction and
praise if she seemed upset. then when she went near the kid in
a fashion like she was going to protect something.. the kids,
their food what have you..
we used praise and distraction. then it progressed to
the other day.. the kid was smacking kelly in the face.
pummeling beyond all belief she has taken from my
own kids.. like if the 23 lb 19 month old goes to stand
on her, kelly will brace herself and hold still so the baby
doesn't fall off.
when the baby stands on her we distract the baby and
praise kelly for waiting. so anyway.. she's being smacked
in the face by the same kid who likes to try and dig eyeballs
out. kelly snarled her lip.. no sound.. just showed her teeth...
sound and praise!
and she broke her thought and came over to me. when
the puppy was biting her so hard she cried (pits dont cry
easily) we used sound and praise when she went to defend
herself.
then we would go to him and distract him off. in less
than a week she learned to either a. drag him to me
or my husband still attached and shaking her ear/neck/leg
or b. distract him herself.
she sees us use distraction and gentle measures and
she does them too. when he's trying to dig a hole she
engages him in play.
when the kid is going somewhere she shouldn't.. kelly
will run over to her.. and seperate the kid from say the
kitchen and guide her in another direction.
when the puppy is biting something he shouldn't.. she
finds a kong and offers him the appropriate chewing method.
Dogs are smart. She only knew to nip or growl or bite. We
taught her gentle ways and she learned them. Dogs don't
want to bite kids or puppies or people.. but they want results.
if they know the food will never run out.. why should they
bite over food? if they know someone else will distract a
biting pup why would she bite him?
all she has to do is find me and i will do it... why does
she need to nip the lil kid again? she knows i will stop
the kid from hurting her. yes it still requires alot of
supervision, because this kid does in fact hurt her alot
and she is not part of our pack.
but that ispart of my responsibility as well.
Jerry calls it allomimetic behaviour.. i think its plain logic.
the dog won't bite if it knows a whimper or cry will
attract help. but if no one else is in control... as we
were not two weeks ago.. the dog will take matters
into its own hands.
And for Donna who asked how safe setting up an incident is?
it is very safe. If you know the dog will bite the kid if it
goes near its food.. you put the dog on lead and have someone
hold the lead securely. MAKE SURE the lead will not reach
say.. 1.5 feet away from the food dish. then let the kid go
near the food. the dog couldn't reach if it tried, and if it
did you are right there to priase distract.
It is much more difficult in the OP's situation since
the kid is close enough to bite. i'll let jerry elaborate
on that. and i wouldn't try that without his advice.
but if you know your dog likes to lunge through the
front door at the mailman.. put the dog on lead and
open the door and use praise/distraction.. the dog
won't go anywhere, but you can set it up to stop the
thought.
it's really a common sense thing. i knew i needed to set up a
situation and knew i couldn't risk a bite.. so i used a
freaking leash that wasn't long enough to reach the lil kid.
voila. by the time the dog realized it wanted to do something
bad.. it forgot it was on lead... and you distract/praise and
break the behaviour before the dog is mid lunge at the end of
the leash.
Amanda.
Whose vicious, aggressive, hopeless pit bull who should
be watched carefully walked by a barking dog who was off
lead as it growled at me and heeled immediately to "protect"
but never used more than 1 foot of the lead and didn't bark or
growl back.
Discipline - The "NO!" Command - HOWE Dogs And
Children Learn To Tell You "NO!" And HOWE COME
They RUN HOWET On You
> From: Amanda [mailto:ama...@dcfwatch.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 14, 2003 7:14 PM
> Subject: Re: Discipline
> On Tuesday 14 January 2003 20:47, T__ wrote:
> funny you bring this up... i met the most wonderful
> couple.. man and wife.. he's a dog trainer.. all his life
> who uses a technique that is ONLY praise and distraction
> with some family pack exercises.
>They spent the day with us sunday helping me on my
> two pits... one is a protective/aggressive 20 month old
> female who is my bubby :) and our 7 week male pup.
> anyway.. not only did i nip any and all aggression issues
> in mere minutes...he and his wife helped me with my kids.
> I was and always have been a spanker.
> It is all i knew how.. i never, ever wanted to be..
> but i was. my house/kids were out of control..
> i was always stressed.
> Since he and his wife came down sunday we've
> had a HUGE change... for the first time the kids
> didn't destroy my house before i woke up... my
> 3yo was in my bed coloring waiting for us to wake
> up... this is the first time she ever used paper
> :) she usually does walls, furniture.
> Anyway.. he told me to use sound/praise.. and it works.
> I have a 6 yo, 3.5 yo who is psycho child :) and a very
> bad-a$$ 19 month old. They are all smarter than I am and
> know it :) There has not been a temper tantrum in two
> days in my house.
> You guys have no idea how great this is.
> But best of all.. this method does NOT use the evil eye
> or a tone of that is in any way short of absolute praise..
> no shouting.. not even a quiet Chloe!.. nada.. ONLY
> praise.
> They even taught my kids not to take candy unless
> i say so.. (my oldest will literally let you pierce her
> ears for candy..
> it's been done twice and i keep taking em out) and
> now the bag of blow pops i forget on the floor in my
> closet (where we keep the girl's dressed) is still there
> and NO ONE has eaten one! My 3 yo is even helping
> me pick up the house.. the baby took my lingerie chest
> apart.. and she cleaned it up! first time!
> They don't even go out the open door without my
> offering it! they helped me sort laundry.. clean the
> living room... im amazed. The 3 yo got some yogurt
> from the fridge andwalked to our kitchen table, sat
> down and ate it.. she REFUSES to sit at the table
> and eat!
> We also taught them and the dogs to sit pretty so
> when they're climbing on my couch.. i go Can you
> show me how you sit pretty?? and they ALL hop
> down and show me to sit pretty with their feet NOT
> on the cofee table.. hands friggin folded.. i almost
> fell over..
> thanks for reminding me to share my joy!
> I'm not a spanker! I don't even yell! lol!
> here i picked names that shout well and i don't need em!!!
> > how old is your bub amanda? waht's the bub doing?/
> > Hello again ladies,
> > Amanda, I love your signature. I also do not spank my
> > daughter, however, she is at an age where she really is
> > asserting her independence.
> > Can anyone help with ideas of what I can do? Blessings,
> > T.
Subject: Re Discipline. Also, SLEEP!
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2003 02:38:46 -0500
From: Amanda <ama...@dcfwatch.com>
> Can you go into this a little more? How did they
> accomplish all this in one day?
My learning is progressive. I email or call him with
questions. But, i'm getting most of it myself. Something
clicked.
How would we do it with our families?
that is kind of broad.. ask me specifics... or i'd still be
typing when your kids are in college ;)
> I really have problems controlling my temper when I am
> already stressed out and then C__ is hurting me:
Me too.. i was abused... my mom was psycho... and i had
problems with anger.. i took it personally when my 6 yr old
wouldn't clean her room... i would sometimes cry is was so
strung out.. i didn't wanna spank but i didn't know what to do
instead.. so i spanked.. and then spanking didn't work.. and
then my dogs went nuts and i called this trainer and he showed
me how to do it.
pulling my hair, scratching me, slapping me, etc.
Mine hit me on purpose alot.. scratching.. climbing on me..
hurting me and then laughing.
Now as I post.. please don't think im trying to be a know it
all.. i simply wanna relay what i have learned... as it is
i've only been spank free for a week now and yell free for two
days (my neighbors two streets over are happy :)
Children, dogs, people.. they do thinks wrong because it
ellicits your ultimate attention. Does your 3 year old enjoy
fingerpainting on walls? no... do they enjoy fighting the minute
you pick up the phone?? No.
They *know* they can command your attention.. and that's
what they
want. same reason your dogs fight.. they think it is
controlling you.
Your kids want you watching their every move.. making sure
they eat.. dont talk to strangers.. because it means you are
watching THEM and not them watching you as it should be. they
should stay within x feet of you.. because they like mom and
she's cool and she keeps em safe... they shouldn't run and
expect you to chase them.. because you won't always be there
to chase them... that's how kids die or get lost.
When they learn to follow you.. it's all good.
Now, take my 19 mo old. She had this habit of sipping 4 oz
from her bottle and demanding more. if i didn't refill it..
she threw a hgue fit. Now she hands me her bottle and says
more.. and i tickle her... then i pick up her bottle and
pretend im drinking it.. i offer her a drink and snatch it
back saying MY Baba!! She wants that bottle.. so she takes it
and drinks it.. even tho i didn't refill it. we had a huge
problem with them taking things they cant have and when i
wanted it they ran... now i give the baby (19mo) my finger..
and she grabs it.. and i wiggle and shout My finger! that's
mine! Gimme it back.. playfully.. and she resists.. and i go
"Ooh.. can i have it please?" and she gives it to me and i
gleefully say Thank you! and she says you're welcome.. and i
give her the finger back... then i hand her say a lighter...
and we wrestle for a minute.. and i say... can i have that???
and she gives it over etc. Of course sometimes she'll have a
cool! book! and ill ask can i have that.. and shell say No.
and i say that's ok! and tickle her or snap my fingers and
say good girl naya.. good job.. then ill start my game again
and wrestle and try to take it gently... then.. can i have
that??? she gives it over. this works with everything now.
> Or when he's ripping up my homework or something like
> that.
Yea... with the dog training you hide nothing.. no forced
control. you set the dog up for fail.. so you can distract
and praise and erase the thought.. same with the kids. Put
some unimportant paper all over.. when he goes to touch it..
make a sound and distract him.. then good boy, that's a nice
baby!... then repeat.. the minute he goes for the paper and
breaks the thgouth you throw him in the air and praise like
mad!
> How would I apply this in those situations? Also, what do
> you do in 'danger' situations (until you're close enough
> to distract them) - climbing on things, sticking metal
> objects into electrical outlets, trying to get into the
> oven, etc.?
Use your judgement.. if you have the distance/time to
distract... do it.. if you don't... pick them up and away..
but act like it's to throw em in the air.. so they don't know
youre forcing control by phsycially removing them... cuz when
you force control.. with the come command when you want your
dog away from something... or when you pull a dirty shoe from
your baby's mouth.. you put value on it.
Like when your kid puts a penny in its mouth.. youll try to
pry its mouth open to get it... and he'll clamp right down..
you gave that penny VALUE! it's not just a piece of crap..
mom WANTS IT!
so.. instead you make a game.. say you want em to smit it
out... walk somewhere else... attract their attention.. be
kinda sneaky... odds are the thing in their mought will get
annoying and they'll spit it out when they walk toward you...
if all else fails.. pry it outta their smiling jaws... snatch
em up away from falling down... but only when you have to..
then work realy hard to overcome that forced control.
Also don't make a big deal about it.. or else theyll learn not
only to command your attention, but also mom will always catch
me so she is watching me.. not me watching her.
> I never realized how spirited C__ was until I started
> tending other kids.
those are my kids. I have had social workers with their
degrees in child development stop offering me services cuz
they couldn't handle my kids... my friends call mine the
obstinate kids.
> They're docile kittens compared to C__! This brings up
> another question - what do you do when YOUR child is the
> bully?
if you catch it before it happens.. loud sound.. big
distraction and PRAISE. if you catch it afterward... distract
and say oh my goodness! and pay attention to the other kid...
he wont get the attention... then explain how that hurts.
odds are your kid won't hurt another kid if he truly
understands its not nice.
> C__ is always beating the other boy over the head when he
> comes over.
> We don't hit in anger in our family
i have.. everyone does in my family... i did it a few times
over 4 years... but that is because i didn't know how not to.
i know now.. and i wanna tell everyone i can.. so someone else
doesn't spank their kids due to a lack of knowledge.
> (we do it playfully sometimes, so we are curtailing that
> in case it is giving him ideas)
my kids, 6yo, 3yo and 19 month old, favorite game is chasing
around the house (all 4 of us) with wooden spools yelling at
the top of our lungs "I'm gonna beat your a$$.. HA HA HA... no
IM gonna beat YOUR a$$ MU HA HA HA" my neighbors prolly
think im nuts.. but the kids love it dog even plays too
> but I admit that after I have been trying to get him to go
> to sleep for 45 minutes, I get a little rough sometimes.
> It's really frustrating. He'll be dead tired - eyes
> bright red, fussy, eyes almost closing every 5 seconds.
It gets worse... they all do it around that time.. they don't
want to sleep.. andyou know what? they don't grow out of it
until they're parents :) it's one of those times you have to
use your patience and keep distracting and praising.
> So I'll take him into the bedroom, and lay down to nurse
> him. He'll nurse for about 5 seconds and then jump up and
> run to the window and start bending the blinds.
he wants you upset.. he wants your undivided attention. you
have to refuse it.. no evil eye.. no "conner" quiet or not..
no anger.. complete nonchalance.. they have to have a total
complete entire lack fo negative attention.. and all they'll
be able to do is sit back and enjoy the positive!
One shout.. one name call.. one No! and it takes awhile to
work up to the positive only.
> So I gently pick him up and lay him back down.
try not to.. but if you have to ok
> And we repeat the process over 10000 times.
when he goes to sit up.. when yous see the thought on his
face.. distract with sound and follow with praise or a song or
giggle.
> Then I get frustrated and lay him down less gently.
better than my method of plop em in the crib and let em cry.
No anger.. stay calm.. meditate, pray.. breath.. try to
remember they will not always be this small.. and youll never,
ever for anything get it back. it's what im using
> That makes him cry, which is the last straw that
> FINALLY gets him to nurse to sleep.
He got you riled up.. what he wanted.. time to sleep.
> Writing it out, I thought of something. He must have a
> lot of excess tension he needs to release before sleeping,
> and finally crying releases it for him.
no way... crying isn't a release.. sometimes.. maybe for
some people.. crying is frustration, pain, hunger,
sadness... sometimes joy.. sometimes tension.. but not
because of his life.. because he's insecure... their dealing
with negative and positive.. and thats what makes em
insecure.
> Any good ways to do this that don't involve crying?
distraction and praise.. if all else fails get up and dance..
fast for day.. slow rocking at night.
> Turning on soft music and swaying in the sling used to
> work for us, but now he either grabs at everything he can
> reach or bends over backwards until he's hanging upside
> down.
cuzhe knows what you're doing. hold him instead.. or sit him
in your lap on the bed and rock
> Putting the sling over his shoulders to prevent that
> doesn't work either. He acts like he is being tortured
> and screams and fights to get out.
becuase it is forced control.
> Katie
Amanda
> Me
--------------
Punishment Deranges Behavior.
"NO!" Does NOT Have Any Behavioral Function
EXCEPT
To DERANGE Behaviors.
Here's professor dermer pryor:
From: Marshall Dermer (der...@alpha1.csd.uwm.edu)
Subject: Re: Jerry's Dog Training Manual
Date: 2001-07-12 06:49:13 PST
And how do we know this aspect of his
advice is right?
Jerry is not God and his manual is not the Bible.
His advice could be subject to an empirical analysis.
(Also, it is best to killfile posts from the
few regulars here who are either ill-tempered,
ill-mannered, or just plain ill.),
--Marshall
"At this point, "No" does not have any behavioral function.
But, if you say "No,"pick up the puppy by its neck and
shake it a bit, and the frequency of the biting decreases
then you will have achieved too things.
First, the frequency of unwanted chewing has decreased;
and two, you have established "No" as a conditioned punisher.
How much neck pulling and shaking? Just the
minimum necessary to decrease the unwanted
biting.
**********IS THAT A CONSISTENT 5 SECONDS?************
When our dog was a puppy, "No" came before mild
forms of punishment (I would hold my dog's mouth
closed for a few seconds.) whereas "Bad Dog" came
before stronger punishement (the kind discussed above).
"No" is usually sufficient but sometimes I use "Bad Dog"
to stop a behavior. "Bad Dog" ALWAYS works," marshall
dermer, research professor of ANAL-ytic behaviorISM at
UofWI. For MOORE animal abuse, please visit dr p.
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
That's INSANE. Ain't it.
Here's professor dermer AFTER gettin JERRYIZED:
"We Are Lucky To Have You, And More People Should
Come To Their Senses And Support Your Valuable Work.
God Bless The Puppy Wizard," Professor Marshall Dermer,
Dept Of ANAL-ytic Behavior, UofWI.
From: "Marshall Dermer" <der...@csd.uwm.edu>
To: "The Puppy Wizard"
<ThePuppyWiz...@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 2:53 PM
Subject: God Bless The Puppy Wizard
Dear Mr. Puppy Wizard,
I have, of late, come to recognize your genius
and now must applaud your attempts to save
animals from painful training procedures.
You are indeed a hero, a man of exceptional talent,
who tirelessly devotes his days to crafting posts to
alert the world to animal abuse.
We are lucky to have you, and more people should
come to their senses and support your valuable
work.
Have you thought of establishing a nonprofit
charity to fund your important work?
Have you thought about holding a press conference
so others can learn of your highly worthwhile
and significant work?
In closing, my only suggestion is that you
try to keep your messages short for most
readers may refuse to read a long message
even if it is from the wise, heroic Puppy Wizard.
I wish you well in your endeavors.
--Marshall Dermer
Subject: < BEFORE -> "Jerry, You filthy, Unctuous,
No Good Charlatan,"
< AFTER -> "Thank You Jerry For Putting Up With
A Constant Barrage Of Really Infantile
Crap At The Hands Of Supposedly Adult
Dog Lovers.
'Naive' Is Believing You Can Terrorize
A Dog Into Good Behavior," Robert Crim.
>Subject: Re: Fritz---a retrospective
>Date: 02/05/1999
>Author: Robert Crim <fritzg...@earthlink.net>
> You filthy, unctuous, no good charlatan. If you had
> any idea of what dogs and dog people were about
> you would realize the depths of the absolute loathing
> and contempt I hold for you right now. Were it not
> for the blessed distance and anonymity that the internet
> gives us from the scummy likes of you, I would probably
> be in a jail cell right now for turning you into the pile
> of shit you really are
Hey, Howe, you really are a wacko, eh?
Crim wrote this about *YOU,* you insipid piece of cow dung!
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
--
Dogman
mailto:dog...@i1.net
http://www.i1.net/~dogman
=====================
> On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:24:15 -0700, dogsnus
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
> Hey, do like me, and killfile Jerry.
> He has millions of people aleady reading his posts and
> watching him extract his soggy foot out of his mouth!
> Out of these MILLIONS, I've only seen 2 naive childs
> come forward and actually believe in his training manual.
Robert Crim writes:
I assume that I and my wife are those two naive childs
since I freely admit to having read and, I hope,
understood enough of the manual and it's counterparts by
John Fisher and the posts of Marilyn Rammell to believe
and use it.
This naive child would like to say thank you to both
Jerry and Marilyn for putting up with a constant barrage
of really infantile crap at the hands of supposedly
adult dog lovers.
The other naive child (LSW) has to put up with the
nagging idea that if people like them had been posting
earlier, maybe we would not have had to hold the head
of a really magnificent animal in our arms while he was
given the needle and having to hug him and wait until he
gasped his last gasp.
To my mind, "naive" is believing you can terrorize a dog.
Naive is believing that people that hide behind fake
names are more honest than people that use their real
names. Naive is thinking that dilettante dog breeders
and amateur "trainers" like Joey (lyingdogDUMMY, j.h.)
are the equal or better than those that have studied and
lived by their craft for decades.
"Stupid" is believing that people do not see kindergarten
level insults for what they are. Really stupid is believing
that people like Jerry Howe and Marilyn Rammell are
going to just go away because you people act like fools.
Why do you act like fools? I really have no idea, and I
don't really care.
> And, to date: I've not seen ONE come forward and
> actually admit to buying and having success with his
> little black box.
I think I'm going to get one myself for Father's day and
take it down to the Animal Shelter for their use and
testing. You would never believe the results, so you'll
never know.
> Anyone by now that doesn't see a scam man coming by
> Jerry's posts deserves to get what is sure to be coming
> to him! LOL!
I don't see a "scam man", so I guess I and Longsuffering
Wife and Rollei will just have to get what we deserve,
eh? As Joey (Dogman) says, "poor Rollei.".......right.
>Terri
Yes it was, and that is sad.
Robert, Longsuffering Wife and Rollei (do I get to
listen to the box first?)
===========
Crim wrote THAT about *YOU,* tommy,
"you insipid piece of cow dung!"
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
To: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@mail.com>
Subject: Alleged Professors of Animal Behavior
Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2005 12:50:51 -0400
Dear Jerry, I paged through some of the "dog business"
and was astonished at the low quality of opinions arising
from professors of behavior analysis.
I had the very great privilege of meeting Sam Corson
(Pavlov's last Ph.D. student) and his dogs at Ohio
University. I even got to spend a night at Sam's house.
There is no question but that you are a spiritual brother
to Corson and to Pavlov, both of whom knew that the dog's
great capacity for love was the key to shaping doggie behavior.
Paradoxical reward and paradoxical fixing of attention are
both well documented Pavlovian techniques. Even so humorless
a chap as B.F. Skinner taught students like the Breland's whose
"The Misbehavior of Organisms" demonstrate the utility of your
methods and their deep roots in scientific (as opposed to
commercial) psychology.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
you may find my resume in Who's Who in
Science and Technology
TheAmazing...@mail.com
cat_lover wrote:
> We have had our dog for about 3 months and
> have realized he is way to much for us.
That's RIDICULHOWES. Your problem is you've
been followin the advice of the miserable
lying dog abusing punk thug cowards who lock
their dogs in boxes and ignore their cries
and spray aversives in their faces and jerk
choke shock bribe and intimidate them.
> I want to find a good home for him.
He's GOT a GOOD HOWES, cat_lover. All you
gotta do is LEARN HOWE to pupperly handle
and train him and he'll be #1 in your HOWES.
> Where is a good place to find a home for your dog?
Might wanna try a SHELTER / RESCUE:
"Granted That The Dog Who Fears Retribution
Will Adore His Owner," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER"
lynn.
"Unfortunately, some confrontation is necessary,
just to be able to handle the dogs. For example,
we need to crate train a dog immediately because
they are usually in need of medical care and they
are in foster homes with other dogs.
It's a safety necessity," lying "I LOVE KOEHLER" lynn.
lyinglynn writes to a new foster care giver:
For barking in the crate - leave the leash on and
pass it through the crate door. Attach a line to it.
When he barks, use the line for a correction.
- if necessary, go to a citronella bark collar.
Lynn K.
> thanks in advance
NOT SO FAST. HERE'S HOWE COME the SHELTER IS FULL:
"I used to work the Kill Room as a volunteer in
one shelter.) But their ability to set their own
schedules and duties causes a great deal of
scheduling overhead.
And it takes effort and thought to ensure that
volunteers get the meaningful experience that
they work for.
Someone has to be responsible for that
Volunteer Program, and it is best done
by a non-volunteer."
Lynn K.
---------------------------------
"I worked with one shelter where I bathed and groomed
every adoptable dog on intake. I frankly felt that the
effort/benefit equation was not balanced for some of the
older/ill poodle/terrier mixes we got in badly matted condition.
Should I have refused to groom them?
Or even more pertinent - I was one of the people who
had to make the euthanasia decisions at that shelter."
I'll be you've never had to put down litters of
beautiful labrador puppies? If you had did, maybe
you'd be singing a different tune?
"Actually, have held them for the tech to euth, and
put their bodies in the trash bag and in the freezer
for the trash company to come and dispose of.
No different tune," ~Emily
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me.
I volunteered as assistant to the euthanasia
tech at our local shelter for a while, and
I know a bit about overpopulation and unwanted
animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with
responsible breeders, because responsible
breeders don't contribute to that problem,"
Mustang Sally.
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness," racetrack silly.
Baghdad Bob <Baghdadbob> wrote in message
<news:04591a2c5d469ef78d35c89ed4ed58f7@TeraNews>...
Lynn, looks like he got you there if these
quotes are true.
In the posts below you take responsibility for
making those calls.
In your post above, you state you do not
make those calls.
Which one is it?
------------------------------------
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey
"Many People Have Problems Getting The Pinch
Right, Either They Do Not Pinch Enough, Or They
Have A Very Stoic Dog. Some Dogs Will Collapse
Into A Heap. About The Ear Pinch: You Must Keep
The Pressure Up," sindy "don't let the dog SCREAM"
mooreon, author of HOWER FAQ's pages on k9 web.
You think HURTING a HUNTING DOG to
MAKE IT HUNT is NECESSARY???
"J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040324071828...@mb-m18.aol.com...
> He was next to me and I could see his neck
> muscles pulsing. He didn't even blink an eye.
> Janet Boss
"sionnach" <rhyfe...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:c3qi15$2biuoh$1...@ID-45033.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "J1Boss" <j1b...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040323173916...@mb-m17.aol.com...
> > > I can't imagine needing anything higher
> > > than a 5 with it, even with an insensitive
> > > dog like a Lab.
An INSENSITIVE DOG???
THAT'S INSANE, AIN'T IT.
HERE'S HOWE COME:
WORDS OF WISDOM
from our own Lynn Kosmakos
1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every day
For Twenty Years
I THINK I'M QUALIFIED TO TALK ABOUT LITHIUM
"I, too, have a bi-polar mood disorder (manic-depression)
requiring 1200mg of lithium and 50 mg of Zoloft every
day.
I, also, care about dogs and use this forum to learn
more, while happily sharing pertinent information
I have learned. But if I were ever to post such sh*t,
I would hope that every other reader of this group
would be rightfully outraged."
"Community is an evolutionary thing that we earn
the right to participate in by observing the
easily understood rules and contributing to in
constructive ways."
Lynn K.
---------------------------
> Thanks
You're welcome!
> Trina is TX
HOWEDY imda
imda...@gmail.com wrote:
> I have a 17 week old Australian Sheppard
That's irrelevent. A dog is a dog.
> and am having a problem leash breaking him.
That's because you don't know HOWE to pupperly
handle your lead and condition your dog to TRUST
that you won't jerk choke or drag him on leash.
The first thing you will learn reading the Wits'
End Dog Training Method manual, is how to get the
dog to relax and pay attention to the handler.
That is done through the Hot And Cold Exercise,
where I teach you how to control the lead without
force, and command the dogs attention through
praise administered with proper timing. This
quickly conditions the handler and the dog to
pay attention to each other and not pull.
Then, the Family Pack Leadership Exercise builds
on the attention gained through the Hot And Cold
Exercise. The FPLX makes the dog want to follow
the handler, and teaches him his position in the
family, and insures that he respects and follows
all family members' leadership. It is during this
simple, subtle, but profoundly important exercise,
that we begin to install the come command as a
conditional reflex.
The come command then becomes the default command,
to be used any time the dog fails to follow a
command as asked, since when he comes to you, he
naturally subordinates himself.
Learning how to install a conditioned reflex can
be applicable to any command that we desire to
install as a conditional reflex. I refrain from
using conditioned reflex for most commands, because
I prefer to allow the dog to think the behaviors
through, rather than simply react in reflex, to
help them generalize the idea, so that they use
their judgment in applying things we are teaching
them, to various situations.
These combined exercises take about fifteen minutes,
and can be practiced in about six or eight minutes
after they have become familiar. I recommend these
exercises be done several times in several places,
and thereafter repeated anytime the dog seems to be
not paying full attention or following commands immediately.
Through learning how to use sound distractions and
praise to eliminate unwanted behavior, we break
undesirable behavior patterns without conflict or
stress, insuring that the trust and respect we
are working on establishing, are not eroded through
conflict, stress, or punishment.
The relationship that we form through these exercises,
makes the dog want to do anything you ask. Through using
the come command as a default when the dog chooses not
to follow a request, we are able to get out of a
confrontational situation, and change it to a more
effective state of mind, and address the problem in
a more effective, positive manner.
The above is all covered in detail in part one of the
Wits' End manual. Part two continues to more specific
obedience training techniques based on establishing a
balance between the dog and handler through the heeling
pattern exercise.
These techniques will improve the behavior of any dog,
and will give you all of the tools you need to help your
dog reach his maximum potential.
The procedures for the above exercises are available
for free in the Wits' End Dog Training Method manual.
I'm always available to help clarify or further explain
and give variations on the information contained in the
manual.
> I got the dog when he was 14 weeks old.
That's irrelevent. You can train ANY dog to
naturally want to do ANY THING YOU ASK at
three weeks of age.
> He loves to play in my backyard
Of curse.
> and spends most of his time with me and my wife.
Good.
> When I try to put him on a leash he
> doesn't want anything to do with it.
That's normal. Dogs DON'T LIKE havin something
around their neck to get pulled around with.
We've got several posters here who've CRIPPLED
their dogs trying ineffectively to "train" them
using choke and pronged spiked pinch choke collars.
> He will just lie down and refuse to move.
We've got several posters here who's dogs do likeWIZE.
> I know he is afraid of being in areas he doesn't know yet
THAT'S because HE DON'T TRUST YOU. You don't suppose
he'd EVER be AFRAID if he was with his MOM, do you???
> so I have been trying to leash break him in the back yard.
NO. It SEZ in your FREE COPY of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method Manual that dogs
DO NOT LIKE being "trained" in their PLAY AREA, it makes
them ANGRY and AGGRESSIVE.
Furthermore, you CANNOT tie your dog to your
belt or allow IT to DRAG his leash behind him
as the PROFESSIONAL TRAINERS tell us to do,
that makes the dogs FEAR their leashes.
> He hates not being able to run around like
> he usually does and even with treats its
> hard to bribe him to walk.
INDEEDY. You CANNOT use "treats' to "train" your dog
because it'll make him MISTRUSTFUL and AGGRESSIVE:
Despite Skinner's clear denunciation of "negative
reinforcement" (1958) NEARLY EVER LEARNING THEORY
model involves the USE OF PUNISHMENT. Of curse,
Skinner has never to my knowledge, demonstrated
HOWE we escape the phenomenon that an expected
reward not received is experienced as a punishment
and can produce extensive and persistent aggression
(Azrin et al, 1966).
> Any suggestions on how to leash break him???
ALL behavior and temperament problems are caused by
mishandling, therefore ALL behavior and temperament
problems can be CURED NEARLY INSTANTLY:
Greg M. Silverman" <gmsNOS...@no.umn.edu> wrote in message
Hey, Mr. Wizard, or Alchemist or whatever your alias
of the day is, have to say that our dog heels much
better than she did. This is after reading and
implementing the bit in your "Wits End" treatise.
And she's a royal nutter (but then again, aren't they all?).
Cheers! Greg--
"Hennie van Dalen" <h.vandalen11***removethis...@chello.nl>
wrote in message news:TlsCb.2895$7U1.7896@amstwist00...
RTFM is age-old computer lingo.... It stands for "Read The
F***ing Manual" ;-) I used the manual and it works very good!
<snip>
For a fact i tought him to heel in 15 min's without
beeing on a leach at-all !!! When he spotted a dog,
he used to run towards it, but now i tought him to "ask
permission" first, and to my surprise it worked!
My dogs never went to puppy-training (lucky for them),
maybe this helped too.
Manual can be found at http://www.doggydoright.com/id 3.html
-- Hennie van Dalen www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11
www.chello.nl/~h.vandalen11/fo tografie/doggy-pictures/
------------------
ballzde...@gmail.com wrote:
> Well I am happy to reply that so far after 10
> minutes of work and the cans from mr Howes guide,
You mean The Amazing Puppy Wizard's FREE WWW Wits'
End Dog Training Method Manual <{); ~ ) >
> I have instilled the "come" command to Riley.
Good. You mean INSTALLED the come command as
a conditional reflex. Be SHORE to perform the
EXXXORCISES four times in each of four locations.
> He is an extremley smart dog, I have never had
> to go to the third or fourth try.
----------------
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2005 01:52:30 -0500
Re: Puppy Wizard's Website
Hi Buzzsaw
Not a Thing to lose ...But a Lot To Gain!!
I can only speak from my experience.. I have a 8 month
old miniature poodle, and although I had done some basic
training with him we had a few barking issues ..ugh
I am happy to tell you, I contacted Jerry at the email
addy I posted and he was so great! I wasn't following
the technique precisely but he helped me get back on track.
Beau is doing sooooo well it is really a thrill working
with him, and seeing the remarkable changes.
Now I can ask for "recall" (come) both on and off lead
and it is immediate!
the first time I ask.
Best of Luck to you,
Remember if you need help or explanation contact Jerry ..
he will be more than happy to help anyway he can.
Cheers
Barb
"Leprechaun" <Leprech...@attglobal.net> wrote in message
news:m01Hc.20882$uK.1...@twister.tampabay.rr.com...
> Jerry believes he's a dog trainer.
Fortunately, I happen to believe he is too.
I took a rescued three year old beagle that
had been kept outside all of its life that didn't
even recognize or respond to its name to
Jerry's home (That ugly cinder block shack???
get real) and in just over one hour of working
with the dog, he was coming on command
(not a quickly as he does now, but still...) and
walking with us on a loose lead.
His "hot/cold" exercise and "come when called"
command and pack exercise WORK!
> and in all likelihood he's never even been near a dog.
Well, he's been near mine, and done wonders for him.
You don't have to like him. You don't have
to agree with his methods, but as far as I
am concerned, I've never seen any other
training approach that was as fast and easy.
<<<< Rest of original post deleted >>>>
Ron Flanagan
Orlando, Florida
-----------------------
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2002 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: dog aggression - Today Seemed Like A Miracle -
WELCOME TO WITS' END DOG TRAINING
Sunshine is still acting like a new dog! Saw a dog
today and "good boy-" worked along with calling him-
came the first time every time. Not even a sound out
of him. Think it is hard for him but he never even
seemed to think about going off-reacting. I would
love to write a testimonial but can not seem to find
the site--please send the address--
The word come has no affect on him just the phrase-
-Sunshine come goodboy.
Hi, Jerry.
I'm not sure that I'm a 100% convert, or that I agree
with (or even understand) 100% of what you say in this
manual ... BUT ... we had "come" down pat in a few
reps and you could have knocked me down when I tried
the exercise with "drop" and, after a few reps in
different spots Darwin practically *threw* the rubber
ball at my feet on command. He's still not perfect
(just a pup, after all, and he's stubborn enough to
want to push and test me a little bit more).
For what it's worth, I can see (as no doubt you have)
how your usenet manner is likely to rankle a few
folks, but that woman who advocates ear pulling and
beating with sticks deserves everything she gets. Even
if that was the only method that would work, I'd live
with my dog not fetching rather than do any of that.
(Darwin fetches enthusiastically and instinctively,
tho').
Best, ben
===================
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2003 9:06 AM
Hello.
I never posted here (or anywhere) before. I
never trained or owned a dog before this year.
I downloaded the Wit's End, read it, corresponded
with Mr. Howe and trained my dog to come and to
stop barking in a weekend.
Our dog, Jake, had been treated with kindness the
whole time we had him, about 10 months, but his
earlier life is unknown.
I worked on the hot-cold exercise for about 30
minutes when he suddenly "got it". After that
he came to me every time with no hesitation.
I used the cans filled with pennies to teach him
not to bark. If he now starts to bark, I go to the
door or window, say "Good Boy, its' alright" and
he usually calms down right away.
A couple of times I had to get the cans
out again to reinforce the behavior.
We feel a strong bond with this animal
and he isvery eager to accept our love.
So with all the vitriolic spewing going on,
I have to believe Mr. Howe is right.
His method worked for us.
I don't know if it would have been quite
as effective if we had tried another method first.
Florence
------------------------------------
"Brandy Kurtz" <KraftyKur...@wmconnect.com wrote in message
Well I just printed out the Amazing Puppy Wizard
info, so I haven't actually started to train yet.
Today a salesman knocked on the door, and Pokey was
going balisstic. I calmly go to the window to see
who it is, and off-handly say Good Boy, It's a
stranger, Good Boy. Pokey shut right up, gave me a
quizical look, and came and sat beside my feet!
OMG, I could not believe it!
I was totally floored, as this has been his behavior
since a pup. Just wanted to update, and Pokey and I
are hitting the sack...;)
Brandy
From: <>
To: "Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, December 28, 2002 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: Damned Family Leadership Exercise -
Re: Am I expecting to much
Hi Jerry,
When I talked to you on the phone to order to machine
for daughter's new pup, I told you that I had an older
Chessie. I rescued him at 9 years old and have had
him for 3 years.
It's funny, but I thought I'd try some of your book
training with him. Where I used to say "come" and
then say "good boy" when he obeyed, I have reversed
it with a "good boy" first.
It really does work.
He was very confused at first, wondering what he
had done to get the praise.
But it really gets the attention and distracts him from
whatever he may have going through his brain when
he hears it.
Dogs are funny, but people are too. Can't wait to get
the Doggy do Right, etc.
Thanks,
N
=========
From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 7:22 PM
Subject: Re: Wits end Training
Hi Jerry,
Send the post to whom ever you wish to. Believe
me I will keep you updated. I got to tell you His
amazing progress almost makes me cry.
Kay Pierce
From: BNTDO...@aol.com
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: THANKS ALISON! - "Owners Should Always
Be Given The Cold, Hard Facts: They Should NEVER FEEL
GUILTY For Having An Aggressive Dog Euthanized."
Dear Jerry,
It's Kay here. I don't know who these people are that
maligning you and your training manual but tell them
from me that it does work.
Hunter is just doing so well even the people who advocated
putting him down are impressed with him.
I even started using it with the neighbor's dog. I went over
there to help her cut his nails. She started yelling at him
for growling at me. I told her to tell him what a good boy he
is instead. Lo and behold he stopped growling and I could
do his nails. All 4 feet.
My dog Hunter was trained with the old jerk and pull method
and my other dog was trained with treats. Hunter has gotten
his enthusiasm back for his training and I couldn't be more
pleased.
He even tried to kiss a child the other day.
Major break through.
This is the dog that a few months ago tried to eat the kids
through the fence. I can now take him in the car with me
again without him trying to chase cars through the windshield.
So Jerry tell these people that the first rule of dog training is:
Do No Harm.
The 2nd rule is whatever works without breaking the first rule.
Aggressive dogs don't need to be put down. Hunter was
diagnosed aggressive and he is going to stay alive and by my
side where he belongs.
Thank you so much.
Kay
========================
From: <BNTDO...@aol.com>
To: <jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 6:50 PM
Subject: Head Hunter
Dear Jerry,
Just thought I would write to let you know how
well Hunter is doing. He had been trained using
the conventional methods for obedience. He had
gotten used to a choker and a pinch collar.
Alot of pain and a lot of jerking around. I had also
tried using positive reinforcement methods that I
had been trained in. He was so busy looking for
the treat that he didn't really want to work.
So I went back to using the pinch collar on him
and also a gentle leader when we were in public.
Slowly by degrees his behavior got worse and
he did deserve his reputation as a vicious dog.
The vet had recommended that he be put down.
I was in a panic when I found your web site.
Thanks! He is now the happy dog that I first
started out with 5 years ago. I am a professional
trainer and it was distressing to me that I could not
help my own dog. I had been told that some dogs
don't respond to any kind of training and that a
vicious dog can never be trusted again.
I disagree!
Hunter is a sight hound and now I can take him
with me and he doesn't chase cars as much
anymore which is one of his main problems.
We are working on the dog aggression thing.
And I am confident that will be successful too.
I also have your BIOSOUND machine and that
too is working good. I know of several rescue
groups that would benefit from it.
This is rather long I know but it comes from the
heart. My Head Hunter Green and I have together
along time and have been through so much together.
Thank you for helping me save his life.
Kay Pierce
========================
From: "Dan Moore" <mooret...@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:22:03 GMT
Subject: Re: How to desensitize VERY sound sensitive dog?
Tracy,
What worked for me, in just one storm, was to praise
the dog after each clap of thunder, telling him he's
a Good Dog!
This is an almost 13 year old Doberman, BTW.
The next time it thundered, he did not even react at
all--you could not tell it was the same dog as before.
There was more thunder just the other day, and same
thing, nada, nothing, zilch, no cowering, whimpering,
trying to hide at all, it was that simple.
I got this idea from Jerry Howe, who might seem to be
a "wild and crazy" character, but his non-abusive way
of handling dogs WORKS. Wonderfully. Praise.
It's that simple.
Juanita
Chris Williams writes:
"The FREE Wits' End Dog Training Method manual
I do find valuable. Much of it I recognize as what
I've always done without thinking of it as "training".
New stuff, I've used. His anchoring technique erased
the last of Mac's fireworks trauma,"
==============================
From: Chris Williams (k9ap...@webtv.net)
Subject: Re: Thank you Jerry Howe
Date: 2002-03-26 08:16:19 PST
Engrossing account, Anthony. Our best to Angel
and your family.
A friend, who socializes the kittens I've taken
from a feral cat colony, is using the DDR.
She reports far fewer panic problems than
she's had before.
============================
Dave Cohen <coh...@total.net writes:
Re: Barking Deterrants Needed...
Hi. Please understand that I do not know Jerry and have
spoken with him briefly once by email.
I have no stake or interest in the success of his
business. I simply want to thank him publicly for one
of his tips, with regards to separation anxiety.
I thought it seemed far fetched to praise a stuffed
animal and then say good bye to my own dog, but
I am usually a very open minded person, so I tried it.
Well, lo and behold- the damn trick worked!
I think Jerry has some intriguing techniques, and
personally I think everyone who constantly criticizes
him is not understanding his logic. Thank you Jerry!
===================
"Just Want To Second Jerry's Method For
Dealing With This (Destructive Separation
Anxiety). I've Suggested It To Quite A Few
Clients Now And It's Worked 'EVERY TIME
The Very First Time' - marilyn, Trainer, 33
Years Experience.
"Hoku Beltz" <h...@rsphawaii.com> wrote in message
news:SN2k9.45447$V7.10...@twister.socal.rr.com...
Aloha Sunny,
Just follow the training program to the letter, no matter how
insignificant some of the step seem to be and your puppy will
be a very well behaved dog in a few days.
I would seriously consider backing out of the training
classes as they will conflict with the Wit's End principles.
I went the training route first, and still had problems until
I found Wits' End. Now I have two "new and improved" dogs.
You won't be disappointed if you follow the program.
Good luck,
Hoku
==================
From: Hoku Beltz
To: The Puppy Wizard
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2002 6:12 PM
Subject: Mahalo
Aloha Jerry,
Just wanted to let you know that the surrogate toy
technique is working wonders. I have not had a
shredded sheet for over a week now. It is nice
to be able to leave the bed made and come home
to a made bed.
Your program is awesome, but you already know
that. Keep up the good work!
Hoku
==================
From: Eric
To: jho...@bellsouth.net
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2002 7:54 AM
Subject: just checking in..
Jerry!
You helped me with my pal Dundee about a year ago
regarding submissive peeing. Just wanted to let you
know he's doing great- he was "cured" in about 2 days
using your techniques!
He has since become the "smartest dog in the world"!
Once I stopped thinking like a human and got inside his
head, I can teach him ANYTHING, usually in a matter
of minutes. Makes me look like an expert dog-trainer.
I rescued two strays last week, cleaned 'em up, wormed
'em, and am getting them their shots. Time to get inside
their heads and teach them to teach themselves how to
be good dogs!
Instead of feeling like "training" is a chore, I look forward
to working with these guys a couple times a day...
Although I don't follow your instructions "to a T", I learned
from you to "think like a dog" and stimulate their brain rather
than beating ass or pinching, or any of that nonsense.
I know damn well I would NOT be loyal to someone who beat MY ass lol!
Well, just wanted to thank you for rattling the bushes
out there and teaching folks the RIGHT way to "train" dogs.
A horseman friend of mine uses very similar techniques in
training his horses- he calls it "natural horsemanship". He
is hated by nearly all the local "trainers" yet somehow he
repeatedly wins at every show he attends. He rarely shows
any more, but goes now and then to rub their noses in it
(pun intended)... Too cool....
Have a great holiday season and keep up the good work!
Eric , Dundee, Sammy, and Maynard
==========================
"Zack Pellers" <ZackPell...@GUESSWHERE.cc>
wrote in message
dlin...@towson.edu (Derek) wrote in news:
697700b8.0405202039.5c737...@posting.google.com:
Your dog needs to be retrained. Contact Mr. Jerry Howe.
You can start by downloading the free training
manual available on the site above. I used it on
my 4 year old Fila Brasileiro.
When I first brought him home from rescue, he
was similar to the way you decribed your dog.
After using Mr. Howe's training method, the dog
was cured within 72 hours.
-Jack
"Estel J. Hines" <ejhi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:w86dna9lBfN...@comcast.com...
Until i read the Jerry method of Bark reductioon,
it went something like this with our 11 month old
puppy "Yoshi"
Yoshi: Bark, bark,
us: HUSH Youshi
Yoshi Bark, bark......................
us: Hush Youshi
Yoshi BARK, BARK, BARK, .................
it stopped when Yoshi got tired barking
We decided to try the Jerry method:
Yoshi: BARK, BARK
US: GOOD Yoshi, Good Boy, who is it?
Yoshi Bark, Bark
US: It's ok, good boy Yoshi, We know them.
Yosh without fail, now stops after we say that.
I must say, it is so much more fun, when we
can praise him, to deal with things like this.
Thanks Jerry
ps: We are just starting to go thru the Jerry
Papers, and learn how to live with our son
"Yoshi", whom we love very much.
--
Best Regards,
Estel J. Hines
==============
Subject: Re: Dog will not listen to anyone but me!
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2002 11:33:36 -0500
Message-ID: uim43blqq1h...@corp.supernews.com
Okay, I gotta speak up here... We've been using Jerry's
methods with our dog. We had the same problem as the
original poster has with Buzz. One day working with the
family pack exercise and practicing the recall command
with the family and she'll now go out with hubby and
daughter instead of needing me to reassure her or even
refusing to go with anyone but me.
I really urge you, regardless of the negative things you
might hear about Jerry & Wits' End here, to try the method
and *judge the results for yourself*.
Let's see what other areas she's improved in... always
comes when called, not chewing stuff even if we leave
it laying around, "re"housebroken after long shelter stay,
walks perfectly on leash, doesn't try to steal food from
our plates or beg... probably a few more things I'm
forgetting to mention. *(Yeah, the kats lay off the koi
and don't wander. jh).
That's in about a week's time.
Her overall demeanor has changed. When we brought
her home she was very untrusting and ultra-submissive
(except with her area/toys where she was possessive and
nippy).
She had been abused and beaten by previous owners,
then she was in a shelter for months. They (most of them)
wanted to give up and kill her Now she's gained confidence
and trust with us. Last night was another big breakthrough
(in my eyes). She barked! Big deal, she barked just once
when she heard the front door. Great!
Anyway, you'll be told lots of nasty stuff about Jerry or that
the Wits' End manual is culled from other sources. In my
opinion, even if it is, it takes only the good stuff and leaves
out the bad. Works for me.
(And I suppose I gotta say this... I don't know Jerry personally.
I've emailed him and instant messaged him. I have not bought a
"Doggy Do Right". He's offered help for free.)
Ms. Mick Owen Crneckiy
http://www.crneckiy.com & http://tarot.crneckiy.com
E-mail & MSN Messenger: m...@crneckiy.com
AIM & Yahoo!: MickCrneckiy ~ ICQ: 72461227
======================
From: "BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca>
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:38:11 -0500
Local: Tues, Jan 25 2005 11:38 pm
Subject: PuppyWizard Thanks..for the Help!
Thanks Jerry for the help.. I really appreciate it!
I am posting this so others will see as well!
Hi Jerry,
> Oh joy, sure wish I had a bigger house ....<sigh>..
> but I don't. I live in a one bedroom apartment, so
> Beau and I spend most of the time in the living room.
> That's where the TV and computer are This is where
> he does the most of his growling and barking.
O.K., doesn't matter WHERE you go when
you got to get up and GO to make him follow.
> I have praised him...hummed a little de de de te de ta ra...
> I have gone to another room. I have tried to change his
> mind set with one of his toys.
O.K., but don't GIVE him the toy, ONLY use
it as a BRIEF NON PHYSICAL distraction.
> This is not a house, so not very big, so when
> we go to the kitchen or bathroom ..there is
> enough room for Beau to sit or down. Bedroom
> isn't large either..when we head for there he
> thinks it's either time for bed or I am going to
> change.( such a man! lol)
We only got to go to another door or room
to break the growling for a moment and return.
> When we go back to the living room we start
> what seems to have become routine all over
> again.
FOLLOW THE TECHNIQUE.
You must always ALTERNATE the sound from
that LAST INSTANCE you used it.
> He barks, I praise, hum and try another room
> or play with a toy. I guess what I am saying is
> he only stops for a very short time.
O.K., that seems to be the cause of the problem.
You're not following the technique precisely.
> If I am watching a program on TV or on the
> computer doing something by the 12th time
>and interruption I am the one getting frustrated!
Right. He's probably not stopping cause you're
failing to continue from the LAST instance of
distraction, OR that you're trying to physically
break the behavior.
> I just want an hour or so without interruption.
NO PROBLEM.
> Sometimes he gets up on my lazy boy chair
> stares at me and growls ( his apartment bark)
He's sayin HOWEDY! PRAISE HIM.
> now he wants something.
No no, no.
No.
> What do you want?
Oooops!
> I ask... play toy? cookie? outside pp?..
> Yep that's the one he wants to go out,
> I know he doesn't have to pee as we
> were just out 30 min ago.
Then TELL HIM so
> He just wants to go out look around make
> sure all is secure.or make like a reindeer
> jumping thru the snow ol usually he goes
> peepee and poopie when asked, so at this
> point I ask for peepee as that's why we are
> out here now. I swear he squeezes out 3 or
> 4 drops just to please me or prove he really
> had to go. ( a perfect con job)<smiling>
Right.
> I am beginning to think ..a) he has total control of me..
MUST be a blond thing!
> b) perhaps we have to go work more.
Naaah. I think you're just not followin the method precisely.
> This little guy is really very amusing and clever,
Yeah. That's HOWE COME we gotta alternate
the direction the distraction comes from EVERY
TIME, and the chain of events NEVER BREAKS.
Always remember the LAST INSTANCE of sound
distraction and use another direction NEXT time.
There's other suggestions I'll have for you if you
don't think THAT'S the problem.
> when he comes and growls at me and I ask questions ..
Good.
> he listens very carefully and cocks his head as
> if to say " what was that? did I hear you right?"
> then he runs to what he wants if I don't get it right.
Yeah... he's talkin.
> When relaxed he gathers as many of his toys as
> possible and brings them all up on my chair,stretches
> out across my legs or climbs over the keyboard on
> my lap for a hug, and will then settle down for a snooze.
Yeah, it's DEFINATELY a blond thing.
>When I am at home he would like me attached
>to his hip or he attached to my lap.
FINE.
> Not enough he sleeps with me ..lol and has
> to cuddle into my back.
Fine.
> Am I expecting too much?
I think I'd draw the line at cudling.
> or too soon?
Your pup should be nearly perfect nearly instantly.
> Is there a point where too much praise
> turns to no longer having control or a dog
> taking advantage?
NOPE. Perhaps if you praise him in advance
he won't ask you to do stuff like take him out
for a look see?
> Or am I just allowing too much trying to do the right thing?
I think you're makin a very tiny mishandling error,
probably by not alternating the direction EVERY
TIME.
> I am afraid at times my frustration may undo
> some of the good changes already accomplished.
That WILL happen if you scold him.
> Did I mention we work every two or three days
> pending on the weather and walk or play in between.
That's FINE.
> Gees ...I'm smiling now, I think he knows I'm writing you ...
They KNOW stuff.
> he has been snoozing across my legs since I
> started this note, you guessed it... not a growl,
> bark or sneeze. yep and he is still breathing.
Sounds like he's a little hyperactive.
That'll settle down in a few more days.
> This is like taking a noisy car to the mechanic,
> when you get there the car quietly purr's.
Just let me know what he's doin and what
you're doin and we can see what's goin on
and fix it nearly instantly.
> Well thanks for any help.
My pleasure
TPW <{) ; ~ ) >
Cheers,
Barb (BarbnBeau)
Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 13:56:40 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jerry Howe" <theamazingpuppywiz...@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the note...and reminder's
To: "Barb E" <>
HOWEDY BarbnBeau,
Puppy Wizard <{) ; ~ ) >
Barb E <> wrote:
Hi Jerry,
Thanks for your notes....
Pretty scary isn't it a blonde dog and a blonde
owner, no wonder the little guy is confused !
Not sure what I thought I was doing re: barking and
growling... sometimes I take things so literally.
I thought you had mentioned humming as a deterrent?
However I concentrated on repeating my little tune
completely, not thinking about changing the direction
of sound.
OMG I have enough trouble carrying a tune never mind
throwing my voice ....hahaha (way too funny)
So, we are going back to real noise and ALTERNATE the
sound from that LAST INSTANCE. ( light bulb moment)
I am NOT following the technique precisely!! duh.
I agree I think he is a tad hyperactive.. but I can
usually get him to calm down and breathe by "down"
and "stay" with lots of praise for a period of 3 to
5 mins. then release and back to playing. ( a puppy
time out lol)
re: cuddling.. Beau sleeps with me and I usually sleep
on my side. Once I move to my side he shuffles in closer
his back slightly touching mine... I think it's his way
of keeping track of me, making darn sure I don't go
anywhere without him!
You will be happy to hear after receiving your note,
and reminder's. Sir started his barking so I went
back to alternating sound and lo and behold he reacted
very quickly and stopped. ( your right.. way too blonde)
We also went down for our last pee break before bed and
wouldn't you know we timed it when the newspaper man
arrived, Beau gave one quick bark and he immediately
stopped.
Lucky me my dog is smarter than I am, the improvement
is there in spite of my errors! Now that you got me
back on track perhaps we will see more improvement.
Thanks once again for your help, will let you know
how things go.
Stay warm.. (for us that means 32 degrees today)
Cheers,
Barb
> Thanks, David
You're welcome. I don't want to BORE you
with all the DETAILS of The Amazing Puppy
Wizard's 100% CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY
SUCCESSFUL FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training
Method Manual, but just a few of the 100%
CONSISTENTLY NEARLY INSTANTLY SUCCESSFUL
FREE WWW Wits' End Dog Training Method
Manual Student's REPORTS might persuade
you not to believe the PROFESSIONAL DOG
ABUSERS you're asking for HEELP.
LIKE THIS:
From: sighthounds & siberians <x...@ncweb.com>
Date: Wed, 26 Jan 2005 07:12:38 -0500
Subject: Re: PuppyWizard Thanks..for the Help!
On Tue, 25 Jan 2005 22:38:11 -0500,
"BarbnBeau" <bdea...@cogeco.ca> wrote:
>Thanks Jerry for the help.. I really appreciate it!
>I am posting this so others will see as well!
>Hi Jerry,
>> Oh joy, sure wish I had a bigger house ....<sigh>..
>> but I don't. I live in a one bedroom apartment, so
>> Beau and I spend most of the time in the living room.
>> That's where the TV and computer are This is where
>> he does the most of his growling and barking.
>O.K., doesn't matter WHERE you go when
>you got to get up and GO to make him follow.
<Skip reposting of Jerry drivel.>
I believe you've been told that Jerry is killfiled
by the majority of regulars here. If you think his
advice is valuable and enjoy dealing with him, good
for you. However, reposting Jerry spew that people
use a killfile to avoid tends to suggest that you're
trying to annoy us, and even if you're not, it's
going to get you killfiled.
Let me be one of the first: PLONK.
Mustang Sally
Looks like racetrack silly is a little jealHOWES:
"After Numerous Training Classes, Behavioral
Consultations, And Hundreds Of Dollars In Vet
Bills, I Killed My Dalmatian Several Years Ago
Due To Extreme Dog-Aggressiveness."
"I'll bet you don't know a thing about me. I volunteered
as assistant to the euthanasia tech at our local shelter
for a while, and I know a bit about overpopulation and
unwanted animals.
This however has nothing at all to do with responsible
breeders, because responsible breeders don't contribute
to that problem," Mustang Sally.
"My spayed Siberian bitch marks and covers all
over the place, as did my spayed Dalmatian bitch.
The Borzoi doesn't, but she is *extremely* submissive."
Sally Hennessey
"Oops, hit "send" too fast. Of course bitches in
season are advertising, so that type of behavior
might be typical of Murphy. And some folks think
that spaying actually increases dominant/aggressive
behavior in bitches that were dominant/aggressive
beforehand, so perhaps marking behavior also
increases in those bitches."
Sally Hennessey
"Sally Hennessey" <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:54nuetsqgkhp26qqv...@4ax.com...
Nope. No more than you'd convince Patch that
prongs and e-collars, in the right hands, are not
intrinsically abusive; or that dogs trained properly
with prongs or e-collars are not fearful, in pain, or
intimidated; or that any one of us here knows our
own dogs and their reactions better than someone
who has never seen them or us...hmmm.
I'm starting to see some similarities here.
Sally Hennessey
Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 13:23:46 +0100
Local: Mon, Apr 9 2001 5:23 am
Subject: Re: shock collars
Sally Hennessey <greyho...@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:b8m1dtsv6vuiblo63...@4ax.com...
Aside from being incredibly offensive and self-righteous,
this post shows and absence of knowledge in the differences
in dogs' temperaments, or perhaps a lack of ability to perceive
same. The fact that you, Alison, have never met a dog to whom
corrections and discomfort, even pain, were unimportant does
not mean that such dogs do not exist.
What it means is that you don't know as much about dogs
as you think you do, and you surely don't know a damn
thing about Harlan or anyone else's dog here.
I had a Dalmatian that would instigate fights with one
of her housemates; that dog had no fear or anything,
and pain incurred during a fight meant nothing to her.
I know that that dog is not unique, and I'm sure many
people here can tell similar stories. The fact that you,
Alison, continue to say things to people such as what
you said to Theresa about causing her dog to suffer
(at least I guess that's what you meant by "you cause
your dog suffers" - - must be the King's English you
guys talk about over there) means that you are an
ignorant, arrogant, insensitive person who is not worth
further notice.
Sally Hennessey
You startin to get the doGgamened PICTURE?:
--Marshall
BWAHAHAHHAHAAAA!!!!!
--Marshall Dermer
=====================
<"Terri"@cyberhighway> Wrote:>
Robert Crim writes:
>Terri
===========
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:26:31 GMT
Subject: Dr. George VonHilshimer Writes: "No Loving, No Learning."
HOWEDY People,
Perhaps the PROBLEM is "TOO MANY WORDS?"
From: "The Puppy Wizard" <ThePuppyWiz...@EarthLink.Net>
To: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 4:40 AM
Subject: Fw: Counter Cruising must stop
> From: "diannes" <dian...@bolt.sonic.net>
> Newsgroups: rec.pets.dogs.behavior
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 12:18 PM
> Subject: Re: Counter Cruising must stop
> > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > I wrote:
> > > > LeeCharlesKelley <kelleymet...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > On another note: I understand why someone
> > > > > proclaiming a method that works on all dogs,
> > > > > all the time, would send up "red flag" to you
> > > > > and others, but the fact remains, if a technique
> > > > > *doesn't* work 100% of the time, with all dogs,
> > > > > then there must be a flaw in the philosophy
> > > > > underlying that technique.
> > > > Ditto for dog training. No failure nor flaw of method
> > > > is involved - that's just acceptance of reality.
> > > First of all, I didn't say that there was a flaw in the
> > > method, though anyone is welcome to make that
> > > leap.
> > > I said there was a flaw in the underlying philosophy
> > > and its model of learning.
> > Correction accepted. I think that perhaps we are using
> > terminology differently here. Here is my use of the terms:
Jerry, I don't know where you find these folk who can't read.
> In order to use negative reinforcement, one must
> typically administer the aversive stimulus in order
> to be able to terminate it.
This is not negative reinforcement. Negative means no.
Positive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
reward emitted immediately by trainer;
Negative reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
no response by trainer;
Aversive reinforcement = behavior emitted by dog,
aversive stimuli emitted immediately by trainer;
The term "reinforcement is used only tentatively with
"aversion" because aversive stimuli (aka punishment)
typically derange learning and are not followed by clean
learning curves equivalent to those which follow reward
or positive reinforcement;
Escape conditioning = dog has an aversive stimulus
applied without any dog related reason and when
behavior is emitted aversive stim is immediately turned off .
There is some indication that Escape Conditioning
works in a manner closely approximating reward;
but, ear pinch? -- too aversive.
I remind you that you should beat them over the head
with "The Misbehavior of Organisms" by Breland and
Breland, published in B.F. Skinner's CUMULATIVE
RECORD. Ignored by most profs of psychology, but
the distillation of his work.
NO PUNISHMENT.
Must pay attention to who is the animal?
His evolution, his development, and his personal history -
cannot train without respect for who is the dog? So says
the BIG TIME operant conditioning guru - and you can also
refer back to MARY COVER JONES (mother of scientific
systematic psychology), no loving, no learning.
I suppose I could wire up a dog so that his brain was
badly interrupted and the loving method of puppy training
might not work well - but it would still work better than
the methods used by dominatrix and their ilk.
Lovingly applied ethological techniques like the one
espoused by the Wizard of ALL puppies work for all
dogs, for that matter for all mammals higher than cat.
Indeed, they will work for cats if trainer is warmly competent.
You can see this in Key West on any sunny day.
Housecats performing quite happily.
Fondly, Dr. Von
From: TooCool (larrym...@hotmail.com)
The Puppy Wizard's Wits End Training Method
I have studied canine behavior and dog training for
years. I have a huge library that covers every system
of training.
The Puppy Wizard's (Jerry Howe's) Wits' End Training
Method is by far the most scientific, the most advanced,
the kindest, the quickest and the most effective training
method yet discovered.
It is not an assortment of training tips and tricks; it is
a logically consistent system. Every behavior problem
and every obedience skill is treated in the same logically
consistent manner.
Please study his manual carefully. Please endeavor to
understand the basis of his system and please follow
his directions exactly. His manual is a masterpiece.
It is dense with theory, with explanation, with detailed
descriptions about why behavior problems occur and
how their solution should be approached.
One should not pick and choose from among his methods
based upon what you personally like or dislike. His is
not a bag of tricks but a complete and integrated system
for not only training a dog but for raising a loving companion.
When I once said to Jerry that his system creates for
you the dog of your dreams, his response was that it
produces for your dog the owner of his dreams.
You see, Jerry has discovered that if you are gentle
with your dog then he will be gentle with you, if you
praise your dog every time he looks at you, then you
will become the center of your dogs world, if you use
Jerry's sound distraction with praise, then it takes
just minutes-sometimes merely seconds-to train your
dog to not misbehave (even in your absence) (Just 15
seconds this morning to train my 10 week old puppy to
lie quietly and let me clip his nails).
Using Jerry's scientific method (sound distraction /
praise / alteration / variation) it takes just minutes to
train you dog to respond to your commands.
What a pleasure it was for me to see my 6 week old
puppy running as fast has his wobbly little legs would
carry him in response to my recall command-and he
comes running every time I call no matter where we are
or what he is doing.
At ten weeks old now, my puppy never strains upon
his leash thanks to Jerry's hot & cold exercises and
his Family Pack Leadership exercises.
Jerry has discovered that if you scold your dog, if you
scream at him, if you intimidate him, if you hurt him,
if you force him then his natural response is to oppose
you.
Is Jerry a nut?
It doesn't make any difference to me whether he is or not.
It is a logical fallacy to judge a person's ideas based
upon their personality. As far as dogs are concerned, Jerry
wears his heart upon his sleeve. It touches him deeply when
he hears of trainers forcing, intimidating, scolding or
hurting dogs.
More than that, he knows that force is not effective
and that it will certainly lead to behavior problems;
sometime problems so severe that people put their
dogs down because of those problems.
I believe that it is natural for humans to want to control
their dog by force. Jerry knows this too. We have all been
at our wits' end, haven't we?
Dogs have a natural tendency to mimic. In scientific
literature it is referred to allelomimetic behavior. Dogs
respond in like kind to force; they respond in like kind
to praise.
Don't bribe your dog with treats; give him what he
wants most-your kind attention. Give him your praise.
You will be astonished at how your dog 's anxiety will
dissipate and how their behavior problems will dissipate
along with their anxiety.
Treat Jerry Howe's (The Puppy Wizard) Wits' End
Training Method as a scientific principle just as you
would the law of gravity and you will have astounding
success.
Dog behavior is just as scientific as is gravity.
If you follow Jerry's puppy rules you will get a sweet
little Magwai; if you don't you will surely get a little
gremlin (anyone see The Gremlins?). --Larry
Works like a charm.
Nice side benefit there.
Mike
"Ama...@DCFWatch.com" wrote:
No, the dog learned that I would hold still
the second she began to pull. She would pull
to go where *she* wanted.
Well if she wanted to stop and go in another
direction.. say to sniff my neighbors yard..
she learned if she wanted to do it I would stop
walking and she could go.. and if there wasn't
enough slack on her lead she would just pull me.
Then when she got done doing *her* thing, she woudl
heel.. smile at me and wait for me to say "let's go"
and finish *my* thing. I would refuse to move .. i
looked like an idiot.. freezing mid walk for minutes
waiting for *my* dog to heel and give *me* permission
to go again.
I did the treats and the let's go... she got to do her
stuff and get a cookie.. if she even wanted the cookie.
I wound up calling Jerry.. as I have a half red nose
pit and half amstaff.. who is incredibly protective..
we had a new pup on the way.. and i needed help.. i
followed petsmarts trainnign guides.. memorized them...
and they *did* work, don't get me wrong.. but only
when my pet wanted a cookie or felt the cookie was
better than what she wanted.. which was not often.
She quickly learned to ignore my commands if she
could see my hands were empty. So I called Jerry...
he chatted me for about an hour and a half.. gave me
his link... and even when i had probs intro'ing the
pup he called me withn i5 mins of my email for help
at 10pm on a sunday night.
One.. singular.. uno family pack exercise after
the hot and cold exercise and i could zig zag
down my street.. about face .. whatever.. and
never had tension.
two men were acrossed the street and she walked right
by them... ordinarily she'd snarl and protect us.
And in two days.. my dog.. who bit the puppy if he
even looked like he was going near my husband or kids..
is nursing him every hour.. cleaning him.. rough housing
gently.. and teaching him to go potty outside..
actually watches him to make sure he doesn't go in
the house... and has milk.. which is awesome since
she's 19 months old and has never had a litter.
She also has stopped barking non stop at our neighbor's
dogs and pig.. does not bark at eveyr car that drives by
and has stopped jumping on people. she's even starting
to ignore our cat who has lived on her dome litter box
and our window sill (literally) for over a year and a half.
She also does her commands on cue.. and doesn't look for a treat.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com>
Subject: The Amazing Jerry's take on psychobabble
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2005 12:13:44 -0400
You might improve the learning of folk who actually
live with and train dogs to do useful things if you
excluded everyone who uses psychobabble from your lists.
I recommend to all of you who wish to taste the flavor
of sensible animal behaviorists to read THE MISBEHAVIOR
OF ORGANISMS, Breland and Breland.
This married pair of psychologists began the long trail
of highly trained animals who are symbolized by Shamu
eating a mackrel from a girl's hand instead of eating
the much more tasty pretty girl who is exactly the size
of the natural food of killer whales, seals. Yum!
The essay, by the way, is a chapter in B.F. Skinner's
summing up book, CUMULATIVE RECORD. They include a
sentence which more or less says, "unless you understand
the personal history of the particular animal, and the
history of this animal's species and group, the developmental
history of the animal, you cannot effectively train the animal.
Pigs root and hen's scratch, if you try to train hens without
scratching or pigs without scratching or pigeons without pecking,
you aren't going to have much success.
A conditional reflex is one which is learned, the original
primitive reflex occurs no matter what the history of the
animal, and is hard wired. If you train the animal to respond,
say by ringing a bell immediately before turning on a bright
light, then you've taught the animal and made his native reflex
of pupil constriction conditional upon the ringing of a bell.
Thorndyke added some terminology to this kind of training
and insisted that when you train the animal to make gross
motor responses that this learning is "instrumental", the
animal takes action and uses an instrument.
The Russian word translated as "conditional" in all other
contexts was mistranslated by Pavlov's American translator,
Horsley Gannt, as "conditioned" and so American psychology
went haring after phantasmagora.
The major theorists for the development of the language of
operant conditioning are Edward Thorndike, John Watson, and
B. F. Skinner. Their approach to behaviorism played a major
role in the development of American psychology.
They proposed that learning is the result of the application
of consequences; that is, learners begin to connect certain
responses with certain stimuli. This connection causes the
probability of the response to change (i.e., learning occurs.)
Thorndike labeled this type of learning instrumental. Using
consequences, he taught kittens to manipulate a latch (e.g.,
an instrument). Skinner renamed instrumental as "operant"
because in this learning, one is "operating" on, and is
influenced by, the environment. Where classical conditioning
illustrates S-->R learning, operant conditioning is often
viewed as R-->S learning since it is the consequence that
follows the response that influences whether the response
is likely or unlikely to occur again.
It is through operant conditioning that
voluntary responses are learned.
One should note that Russian Psychology did very well
without the operant language, and only pettifogging
university professors ought to worry about what kind
of label we attach to the learning. Pfui!
Even Skinner understood this!
And please note if you saw the original movie, THE
MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE, you saw a Chinese psychologist
who was based on Andrew Salter, CONDITIONED REFLEX
THERAPY.
Alas, Salter didn't have a Ph.D., but he basically rescued
us from the long Freudian nightmare and returned psychotherapy
to a scientific basis. Alas, the 2nd movie didn't even cite
Salter as a source. "...all the highest nervous activity, as
it manifests itself in the conditional reflex, consists of a
continual change of these three fundamental processes --
excitation, inhibition and disinhibition." Ivan P. Pavlov
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.S.H.
What's important is, "does Shamu reliably eat
the fish and not the pretty girl?"
George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D., F.R.
From: "George von Hilsheimer, Ph.D." <drv...@mindspring.com
To: <d...@arcane-computing.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Doggy advice
Scott, Jerry Howe forwarded me the letter below.
I'm glad that you referred negatively to Jerry's
habit of CAPITALIZING and HOWEING everything.
I personally hate this habit of his. I think it is his
way of diluting his authority - IME he is a very modest
fellow. However, contrary to your sneer, he is very
competent at living with dogs.
I thought I'd list a series of actions which I found
on the list, folk asking advice on what to do about
dogs doing this and that, for example:
whining,
humping, hunching,
pacing,
self mutilation - paw licking, side sucking,
spinning,
prolonged barking, barking at shadows,
overstimulated barking,
fighting, bullying other dogs,
compulsive digging,
compulsive scratching,
compulsive chewing,
frantic behavior,
chasing light, chasing shadow,
stealing food,
digging in garbage can,
loosing house (toilet) training.
inappropriate fearfulness
aggression.
The thing that is fascinating to me, as an ethologist who
graduated from college 50 years ago and has spent all of
the intervening time working with animals (including the
human animal), is that you never see any of these behaviors
in wild dingoes, jackals, coyotes or wolves, you don't even
see these behaviors in hyenas (who aren't dog related).
You see these behaviors in human managed animals, especially
animals who live with neurotic hysterical humans.
As Sam Corson (Pavlov's last student) demonstrated for
nearly 50 years at Ohio University (Oxford, O.) there
is no treatment more useful for dogs than tender loving
care.
George von Hilsheimer, Ph. D., F. R. S. H., Diplomate,
Academy of Behavioral Medicine
"Linda" <llindaleedan...@msn.com wrote in message
news:
I have been trying for the last 18 months to help my
dog who became fear aggressive at 18 month of age.
I do not know what started the problem but he came
aggressive first with dogs and then began lunging and
snapping at people. Until this time he loved everyone
and could play with any dog. He was well socialized
ad I took him with me everywhere.
At 13 months he passed the Canine Good Citizens
Test except he could let me leave him. I had used
clicker training to teach him manners and tricks but
it was not working on his aggression problem.
I took him to vets who suggested a low protein diet,
trainers who charged $800 to only make him worse.
They tried to use a prong collar and he froze, urinated
and tried to climb on my head to help him. they then
suggested a shock collar I knew this approach was not
working as he was becoming more aggressive.
I took him to an animal behaviorist with Ph. D. 400 miles
away who told me to "KEEP HIM SAFE" and read a book
on the fearful canine. I tried another trainer who tried to
use a nylon chock collar but it only made him worse.
I read hundreds of books,"CULTURE CLASH", "DOG
ARE FROM NEPTUNE", "THE OTHER END OF THE
LEASH", ETC looking for help. We finally went to Purdue
University Small Animal Behavior Clinic and they said he
had fear aggression, punishment would not work, use the
gentle leader and when out walking and he got stressed
have the people stop until he could get in control using
treats, and work on clicker training.
At that point I knew more about clicker training and using
the gentle leader than they did! Nothing was working--he
would not come when I called him and would run away when
I tried to catch him. I was afraid to walk him even in the
neighborhood as we had become that "mean dog and women who
hasn't trained her dog"
I went to four trainers in both Michigan and Florida who
were trainer/specialists in aggression and the last two
were so afraid of him they could not approach him. No one
said I should give up on him and kill him but they would
say "You have to realize he is dangerous and you are
responsible for him."
*(You got LUCKY, Linda... They coulda got Sunshine
DEAD on us. Damned near did... too.)
As last resort I tried the internet again--I had had on
going discussions with trainers from Triple Crown and Dr
Meister with out any help-and I found the ad to Doggy Do
Right and messaged Jerry to ask if this might help my dog.
He said solving the aggression problem was EZ but I could
not believe him even when I downloaded the manual.
The name of the method was right I was at my Wits End.
I had been working for 18 months!
Using the can sound three time he came, and still comes
from anywhere with the command-"comegoodboy" Next
I tried the can when walking him--when he saw a dog three
blocks away he went off-lunging and snapping-I used the
can sound and he looked at me like uhn?
I used it three more times and we got to the other dog-
-the looked at me wagging his tail--the other person
looked at me like why are shaking that can but just walked
on by.
When ever I try to explain about the sound people look at
me like "you must be out of your mind"
The results can make a believer!!!
Three weeks since beginning the Wits End Training
Manual program I walked him without the gentle leader
in a busy shopping area with many dogs.
He just seemed to not notice any one.
When people talked to him or ask his name he would
look at then and wag his tail and let then pet him.
I still can not believe the change in him--we can now
enjoy life out in public.
If I had not found the Wits End method I know there
was no hope for him and he would have hurt someone
Through all this he never growled at me, guarded his
toys or food or showed any sign of aggression with me.
My goal is to get the message out to all dog lovers that
dogs can be trained fast, easily and problems solved with
out force, pain, food or anything but sound and praise!!!!
I know most people would have given up on him a long time
ago but he was and is my life. Solving the problem was EZ
but only with the right approach-sound and praise.
I know because I tried everything else and nothing worked!!!
================================
From: Linda Daniel
To: Jerry Howe
Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 1:06 AM
Subject: Re: - Re: dog aggression
Thanks for writing--I would be happy to do almost anything
to get your approach out to dog owners as I know it would
save so many lives. I know at times I was so frustrated I
thought of giving up on Sunshine but of course I never would
have but many people would have. The world just does not
know you can train a dog in just a few sessions and actually
solve problems.
We will be here until late April and we really have no plans-
-just to enjoy the warmth and sun of Florida, so any time
you could meet us would be great. I drive so I would be
happy to come to you anytime anywhere!
We went to Celebration today and two little poodles got
right into his face and he just sat there--I GOT a little
scared but he handled it just fine.--a couple of times people
would ask his name and want to pet him and he just went
to them tail wagging and rolled over for them rub his tummy.
He really just is not concerned about people passing, even
those on rollerblades! I have always used a gentle leader
in public but he spent most of time rubbing his face on the
grass--today I used his collar and he was so much happier!!
Only problem is he will stop to smell and I can not get
stopped soon enough to keep the leash loose. He never
pulled ahead of me but when he gets into smelling I have
a hard time getting him going--at times I think he could
smell a blade of grass for 10 minutes.
I can never thank you enough for giving Sunshine back!!!!!
I wrote to Purdue and told them about him being able to
walk in a crowd with out the /gentle leader and not having
a problem with other people and dogs.
I told them their advice did not work. Their advice was
to use the gentle leader at all times and when he was
around people or dogs to have him sit and reward with
treats--one really good suggestions was to have people
coming toward us stop when he got stressed or aroused
and not move until we backed away-
- can you just see me yelling at people to stop on the street
until I get his attention with treats.
They also suggested the possibility of using drugs-prozac-
but thought he was too dangerous as the drug would make
him less fearful and then he might attack or become more
sure of himself and become dominate aggressive. Just had
to share their great advice with you but I am sure you have
heard it all--even I am becoming an expert on bad advice.
----------------------------------
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The Amazing Pussy Wizard <{@); ~ } >
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http://www.irishdogs.ie/Information/Wits_End_Dog_Training.pdf
Please DON'T BE The Amazing Pussy Wizard's PREY.
IT AIN'T PRETTY.
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